The Harvard student who cracked LinkedIn: Julia Alvarenga | #26

Transcription

Daniel: Not a lot of people at Harvard do content creation and marketing. This whole has been around for so long. There's not a single marketing group, which is crazy to think about. My strategy for everything that I do in life is whatever people are doing, do the opposite. The CMO of OpenAI reaching out saying that she enjoyed whatever I was doing. It's very hard to stick to that route that you want and just ignore what other people say. You've got to climb the cringe mountain, and then sometimes I ride it during class. I never zone out. I hope my professors never watch this, but they'll never... Welcome to Connection Accepted. I'm so excited. Today we have Julia Alvarenga on the pod. Matt: Julia, thanks for joining us. Daniel: Thank you for having me. Matt: So Julia, just to kick things off, for the audience's benefit, can you just give a quick overview of your background, who you are? Daniel: Yes, I am a senior at Harvard studying economics and computer science, but everything that I do revolves around marketing, and that's probably what I want to do for the rest of my life. I grew up in Brazil, in Sao Paulo, and I moved to the U.S. when I was around 15 and went to high school in Texas. And then from there, I came here, but I grew up doing theater, so I grew up as a theater kid. And I think that naturally translated into what I do now. I love talking to people. I actually used to be a very shy kid, and I would avoid people at all costs. And that's why I started doing theater. Daniel: But now I feel like I can't go a day without yapping my life away with strangers every day on the streets. So I've changed a lot since my first beginnings in the theater space, transitioning into marketing. But that's who I am. Econ, CS, marketing, very creative. I love everything creative. And, yeah. Matt: Can you talk a little bit more about the being a shy kid and then, like, what changed? Daniel: Yes, so I grew up as a model kid, actually. So I would get used to going to photo shoots and auditioning for commercials. But at home, I would go crazy and rehearse in a mirror and to go around the house talking and screaming and doing all the things. And then I would get to the audition and be quiet. And I wouldn't do anything that I did at home. And so because of that, I started doing theater to kind of let all the energy out and be more comfortable talking to people. And so I started getting into school plays. So I played a bunch of roles, but I think the most defining one was Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz. It was a school play, so it wasn't anything huge, but I performed to, I don't know, 700 people-ish. And so that was the moment I was like, whoa, okay, this is so fun. I love doing this. And I guess I've changed and I'm not shy anymore. So I guess theater made me into who I am. And it was something that I wanted to do for the longest time, but I just didn't know how to get there and how to be more comfortable with people. And that was my avenue to get there. But now I'm no longer shy. Daniel: Sometimes I run out of energy and people might think I'm shy because I just... You know, there's so much going on every day. Sometimes the energy runs out. But for the most part, I became a different person because of theater. Matt: Was this play in high school too? Daniel: Yes, yes. It was in high school. It was freshman year of high school. And I played... Actually, there's a long story to this. So freshman year of high school, I was still in Brazil and I played Dorothy, right? But then I didn't really speak English. And so that's the reason why I went sophomore year instead of freshman year because I failed the TOEFL proficiency exam. And so once I got to the U.S., I couldn't really speak English and I couldn't really do theater anymore. And so, how can I express myself in different ways? So that's how I found dance. But I also didn't know how to dance. So I had to learn how to dance. And for a year, I would just practice in the living room and do all the things. So I finally joined a competitive team my junior year of high school and then stayed junior and senior year. And then I could speak English at that point because once you're... You go into a country and you're forced to speak the language every single day, there's no way you're not going to learn, especially if you're trying, actively trying to learn as much as possible. And so I finally mastered the English language. Daniel: And so there was a Wizard of Oz play again and I auditioned, but this time I played Glinda, you know, the good witch. So I have this whole story with The Wizard of Oz. And I think kind of guides a lot of the things that I do, like follow the yellow brick road. I know it's kind of silly, but everything that I do, I'm like, okay, follow the yellow brick road. It's there. Just keep going. And that's my... I don't even remember what the question was, but that's my... That's a good answer. Matt: Can you... Elaborate on that, when you say, like, it kind of guides how you make decisions and, you know, not just in theater, but maybe at school or how you think about like your career, things like that, like, talk a little more about that. Daniel: Yes, yes. I think the concept of yellow brick road plays out differently for each person. My yellow brick road is not gonna be your yellow brick road, it's not gonna be your yellow brick road. Um, and I am very strongly about following whatever you wanna do and doing whatever you wanna do regardless of what other people think. Um, a lot of people at Harvard specifically follow the consulting slash finance pipeline, which is fair. It's whatever they wanna do. And I was compelled at some point to do the same thing. In fact, initially, I was an English major because in high school, I also did a lot of poetry. It's something that I'm really attached to, writing and, you know, just literature, English in general. Matt: And I chose econ instead and then added CS later on, kind of following that mentality, okay, I'm gonna do consulting, I'm gonna do finance, and those two are kind of more aligned with that route. But then, over time, I went back to the yellow brick road concept. Oh, that's not really my version of that and what I wanna do. And so, professionally, I'm following what I actually want, which is content creation and marketing and all the creative stuff. But I would say, it's very hard to stick to, you know, that route that you want and just ignore whatever what other people say. But that's the concept I hold dear to my heart and just following that intuition. Daniel: Yeah, it's a, well, first of all, super admirable that like, you have the self-awareness to be like, okay, I want to follow my own yellow brick road, which might not look the same as it is for someone else's. And Daniel and I were kind of laughing when you mentioned the consulting thing because we're both uh current and former consultants. Respect. I love consultants in finance roles. You don't have to hold back with us, by the way. You can tell us what you actually think. Matt: Um But 100%, I think it's, it can be really difficult, especially when you're like at a school like Harvard on campus where so many people kind of like have the same mentality of, oh, this is what success looks like after college, right? It's a clearly defined set of jobs and paths that people go down. Daniel: So it's super impressive that you're like trying to chart your own path and follow what's actually interesting to you. Yeah, actually, not a lot of people at Harvard do content creation and marketing and all those fields. This school has been around for so long. There's not a single marketing group, which is crazy to think about, right? It's um And so we finally created one this past year, but just so you guys have an idea of how not common it is to follow the more creative routes. And I'm a content creator, but I'm not a full-time content creator on the Instagram, TikTok sense where I'm just creating videos all the time. And yet when we talk about Harvard, so many people still reach out to me because, of course, there are more, but they're not enough. You know, it needs to be more appreciated and more recognized in that way. Matt: So what was it like then, first stepping foot on campus at Harvard? You're born in Brazil, you went to school in Texas, and now you're in the Northeast, which are all three very different places and I'm sure culturally it was a pretty shock, pretty big shock coming to Harvard too. Daniel: Yes, yes. People in the south are very sweet. I'm from Kentucky, so I get it. Matt: Yes, yes, yes. And very warm. And the same applies to Brazil. You're just hugging people everywhere and kissing them on the cheeks and all of those things. And here, people don't really do that. However, Harvard is a bubble, right? It is a bubble. Daniel: You go to Boston, you go to Somerville, you go to these other places and the way people behave is quite different. I feel like Harvard, because it is a bubble, people are warm towards each other and they're willing to know each other in that way. And honestly, I haven't explored Boston to the full extent. I should though. It should be a bucket list or item for senior year. But cultural shock in the sense of work hard, play hard mentality. I feel like people work, okay, yes, people do work a lot and Also party a lot through my lens, but if we go to different schools, maybe it's not the same experience. People enjoy life much more. For example, I go back to Brazil and all of my friends are happy and they're enjoying their lives, and on the weekends they go to the park and So it's different types of fun. Yes, different types of fun, but I feel like there's a perpetual stress here. People are just running around and on the weekends you're just Working and doing all the things is an interesting experience, an interesting college experience that I don't know, I wish we could go to different colleges and live a year in each college to see how it feels like and take something from each. That's a heavy hot take, but... Matt: That's one of the reasons I love visiting. So I went to Brown, not too far from here, and, you know, I had some similar experiences to you. Daniel: Well, it's not quite as intense as Harvard, but when I would visit my friends at schools like South Carolina, I would have the best time, and it would just be a totally different experience than you can get at Harvard or Brown. Although the Harvard-Brown game is pretty fun. Matt: Yes, I should have gone. Oh, here's another thing. We have zero school spirit, which is so sad. The only football game people go to is Harvard-Yale. The one that most people go to, it's so much fun. People have so much fun. Now imagine if we had that every weekend or at least twice a month. I don't know, it would be a fun experience. I wish we had that. I think what you're doing with content, though, is really putting a different perspective, like of Harvard, and you're trying to make some of that, too, through your content. So I'm curious, when you get, you start to step foot on Harvard, much different experience. When do you start making content and realize that this is a passion of yours? Daniel: Yes. So I initially started as, as most freshmen do, they get here and it's everything is magical, right? Oh, it's Harvard, yada, yada, yada. So naturally you start making content. So that's how I started on TikTok. Right away. Matt: Right away. Daniel: Like pre-orientation, I started making videos about the arts pre-orientation program. But back then I had zero experience. I didn't know what would resonate with people. So I was just showing daily life. Daniel: And from there, I started, I was also on the dance team my first semester, and I also started making content about that and sort of vlogging on YouTube as well to show, yes, YouTube. And then I was like, oh, what people do here. But there is an internal, there's a stigma against Harvard influencers and Harvard content creators, and that, okay, I don't really care about what other people think. I just filter everything and just go on with my life. But at some point I stopped doing that for Harvard specifically, but I mean on my personal channels. And as I stopped, there was this open opportunity to work with the communications office at Harvard creating content for the college specifically, as opposed to my personal page. And so I joined them and started making content more not to promote myself, but to promote the school. And I feel like I learned a lot there. And that's how, that's finally when I realized, oh, I really like doing this. This is so much fun. I'm meeting so many people every day, just going around and introducing myself and getting them involved in the content creation process. But something that I struggle with a lot was getting people to be on camera. I would go around, oh, do you want to be on a video? No, thanks. Or, you know, and rejection. I would struggle with rejection a lot in the beginning, but over time I got used to it. But that's how I started. Daniel: And after communications office, there's another office that takes care of all 12 schools as opposed to just the college. Initially, it was just Harvard College. And then I joined them and then I started meeting even more students because now we're talking business school, Harvard Law School, medical school, all the Harvard school is not only the college. And yes, and I just, oh, yeah, that's how I went more and more and more deep into the content creation. What advice do you have for someone who maybe they're a student right now and they want to make content, but they're kind of like either afraid to be on camera or they're afraid of kind of like the stigma around student content creators or just like someone who has an online presence. Like what advice do you have to those people? Matt: This is the most cliche advice ever, but you've got to start somewhere, right? It's gonna be cringe. And I'm sure a lot of people have heard of the cringe mountain. You've got to climb the cringe mountain. And then once you're up there, it's very nice and you're just, okay, I made it. But the process to get there is very difficult and it involves posting a lot of videos that will most definitely flop, that people will most definitely talk about. But it's also finding your content style is something that is very difficult to do, yet very valuable. And everyone goes through the process. Matt: Initially, you're not gonna have the perfect title, the perfect captions, the perfect visual assets that will come naturally after a lot of videos, but starting somewhere and also not waiting for daily inspiration to hit. I had this thing where it was called Deep Thought of the Day, where every day I was supposed to, supposedly, I was going to record a video every day with a deep thought that I had that day and post it on the following day. Guess what? I didn't have any deep thoughts because days go by and I was just waiting for inspiration to hit, or I was seeking for inspiration in places that don't really inspire me. For example, walking from here. I take classes in this area, and it's quite far from the main campus. And I love walking and I feel like walking is the creativity you get from walking is just insane, much more than just sitting down with a whiteboard and some markers, right? And so I would just walk around waiting for ideas and just observing my surroundings. And yet nothing would really... Also talking to people, I feel like it's a good source of content. But the point is, don't wait. Just go for it and talk to people about it. Look for much like kind of like a startup, right? You need to talk to users to figure out whether or not they want the product. Talk to your friends, check whether or not they want the content you're creating, and then go from there and Don't overthink. That's the... I'm curious, what do you think that... Matt: So, like our previous guest, like Alison Chen, talked about biting the cringe bullet. Peter Walker talked about content being a slog for the first four months. Where do you think that cringe aspect comes from in college? Because Brown had the same thing, you know? When I was making LinkedIn content at Brown, it is cringe. And then it's cringe until it works. And I don't know why it's cringe, like socially. Where do you think that comes from? Like, is it because you're not going the traditional path or...? Daniel: I think it comes from this weird... Maybe, maybe jealousy, but it's not usual for people to put themselves out there, right? Everything happens in private. You have your conversations in private. Your thoughts are private. But when everything becomes public, when in a place that is not necessarily common, I feel like that's when the cringe aspect comes out. Also, it's only cringe if you make it cringe. If you own it and if you have this insane confidence, even if it's fake confidence, that inspires other people to think, oh, that person is very confident in what they do, so I might as well believe in what they do and let them be. You know, I also think it comes from the inside. Initially, I thought it was very cringe and I let other people know that I thought it was cringe. And naturally, they might have thought, oh, that's actually, you're right, it's cringe. But if I go, oh, actually, content creation, it's been helping me so much in my professional life. Daniel: So many people have been reaching out and there's a lot of value in it. And I think people respect you more once you frame it differently. It's all about the way you frame it, I think. But it could come from jealousy as well, maybe, in certain cases. Matt: Yeah. What are some of the unexpected benefits of posting online? Daniel: Oh, people reaching out. Very... Okay, before I started creating content, I had this mentality. If I ever blow up, I haven't yet, but I thought if I ever blow up and I start getting messages, I'm gonna reply to every single message. I'm not gonna leave anyone on the DMs without replying. But then, especially for LinkedIn, I started posting. We can get into the story later, but I started posting because of the startup I was working with and we were trying to target prosumers at first and a lot of people started reaching out and I wanted to reply to all of them, but at some point, I couldn't because there were so many people that I wasn't expecting to reach out. And also job opportunities. I feel like when you create content showing who you really are in a fun way, not necessarily with the intention of getting a job, and then job opportunities suddenly start showing up. What is happening here? Also, in content creation, there are so many skills that go into it, right? You're talking about writing, which is so valuable these days, especially considering ChatGPT and artificial intelligence can do pretty much everything. Daniel: But I don't think it has quite mastered the artistry and the creative sensibility that comes from human writing. Yes, it can replicate, but human sentences are so particular and there's, you know, the connections that you make that I don't think it has... Matt: The emotion. Daniel: The emotion. Yes, yes. I love talking about this. Matt: Yes, yes! It's not quite there. Daniel: There yet, and so content creation forces you to explore that aspect. It's, I think the strongest content creators are the ones who master storytelling the most, right? Such a It’s a good skill to have. So there’s storytelling, there’s editing, there’s so much that goes into it that translates into whatever professional field you go to. The most remarkable thing that has happened, not the most remarkable, but one of the most remarkable consequences of content creation to me was the CMO of OpenAI reaching out, saying that she enjoyed whatever I was doing, because for context, we both worked at the same place at Harvard. She's a Harvard person. And just making herself available for anything. And it's cringe until it isn't. Matt: So, yes. This is incredible. The CMO of OpenAI reached out to you over LinkedIn DMs? Daniel: Do you remember after which post it was? Matt: After? My most viral one on the first day of school. I talked a bit about my junior year, and so she reached out after that. But just so many cool people out there. Matt: And you never, you never know who's watching you, who's seeing your content, right? So many cool people that you have no idea, but that one day might be, if they're looking for somebody for whatever field you're creating content about, they will think of you because you're just there on their page annoying them all the time. When did you start posting on LinkedIn? Daniel: So I feel like TikTok was, TikTok and Instagram probably freshman, sophomore year. When was LinkedIn first for you? Matt: For TikTok and Instagram, I was never really consistent about it, but on LinkedIn, it was over the summer, around July, mid-July. Daniel: Of which year? Freshman year? Matt: This year. Daniel: Oh, okay. Matt: Yes. So I was working for a third layer, a YC-backed company, and they're building decks, which is in the browser co-pilot. And we had to market Decks pre-launch, just to get people excited about it and show them all the features and what it can do for each target customer segment. And so I started making videos about that and posting on LinkedIn without really, I really didn't know what I was doing. I was just, okay, post and run away and see how it goes later. But I started with video content, and then I saw a lot of people in growth roles in different startups posting consistently about their personal lives and about random things and growing a distribution channel in that way. And so I explored more and more that route while still creating video, yes, also creating videos. Daniel: And it's a LinkedIn has a very specific way of creating content, right? The paragraphs need to be short and a sentence max. No, two sentences max per thing, and then you need to press on spaces in between. And in the beginning, I would just write long paragraphs without really knowing what I was doing and just, okay, and hope it works. And I remember asking people, how do you post on LinkedIn? How, what do you think it works? What doesn't work? And they weren't really helpful, to be very honest. And I remember this one person said, just follow your, you will understand one day, just follow your intuition. Once you start posting more and more, you will understand what works and what doesn't. I'm like, how, how am I supposed to know if, how? And it took me a few weeks to get there. And just studying other people. I feel like closely studying other creators is key and understanding what works. And after I, I had to come back to school, unfortunately. I love school, but I would rather work. But I had to come back to school, no longer working with Third Layer. And thus, no longer necessarily needing to post on LinkedIn consistently. However, I got so much value from starting that I had to continue. And so I still post consistently. And it's great. I feel like I've, I honestly, the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know. And I feel like I still have a lot to learn, but I think I finally mastered the art of posting on LinkedIn. It's very specific. Matt: And now I understand my friend who mentioned, oh, you understand one day you just, just keep doing it until you get it. And it's true. Just keep doing it until you get it. Yeah. I, well, first of all, I think you, you get crazy engagement on a lot of your posts. And one thing that I've noticed about your content that especially stands out. To me and to Daniel is like, the storytelling aspect and then also like leaning into the authenticity and just like being unafraid to share some of those inner thoughts. I think we talked about earlier. Where do you think, like you get the courage to like share those things that I think a lot of people on LinkedIn, which is traditionally a more buttoned up kind of platform, like a lot of people would be kind of like hesitant to share those. But because you're, you know, going out there and telling the stories about like your personal life and things that are going on in your uh in your life, I think it really resonates with with a lot of people. So like where do you Where do you get that, the courage to do that? Daniel: My strategy for everything that I do in life is whatever people are doing, do the opposite, and it will work out. If your competitors are all doing this one thing, do something else. That's not necessarily better, but that that will most definitely set you apart. And other people, if it's good, other people will follow. So at first when I first started posting, I had no idea that this would work out. Daniel: But also, as someone with a marketing background for everything that I do, I A/B test. And so just testing things out until the one thing hits is key. And for the storytelling aspect more specifically, I have no filter. Whenever I'm talking in person, I don't hide my inner thoughts. You will know whatever happens, whatever I'm thinking, you will know. I don't hide anything. Another, another theory that I live by is that we'll all die one day, so it doesn't matter. Whatever we say, whatever we do, we won't be here in 100 years. So just do whatever and you will reap the benefits naturally if whatever you're doing is taking you towards your yellow brick road, taking it back to to our beginning, the beginning of this conversation. Um, what were you, oh, oh, not hiding your inner thoughts, whatever you're doing, just do the opposite. Um, I think journaling is something that also really helps. To be honest, I don't journal as religiously as I should because I think it really helps you reflecting on your experiences and then writing about them really helps. But whenever I have a thought, it doesn't matter how unhinged it is, I just write it down on my notes app. And I turn that into a LinkedIn post later on. Not only unhinged thoughts, but really any thoughts. Um, it doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of class where you're not allowed to do, to get any electronics. I will pull out my phone and I will write my thoughts down. I'm in the bathroom. Daniel: I will get my phone and write my thoughts down. Um, because, yeah, it's not being scared of what other people will think because in the end, at the end of the day, they're not paying your bills. They're not, they're not living your life. You do something that pretty much every other guest and even Matt and I do is write all your thoughts down in whether it's a notes app, Google Doc, whatever. And I think that's a great way to write posts. I, before we get into your process of how you write posts, I want to first ask about AB testing, something you brought up and to give the audience some context is when you try two different formats to something and then you see which one works and then use that information to make better decisions on social media going forward. So like you might A/B test two thumbnails on YouTube is a great example. For you, LinkedIn doesn't have an A/B test feature. You can't just say, you know, like I'm going to post this post in the other one and see which one does better and, you know, test two different hooks and see which one does better. So how are you thinking about A/B testing on LinkedIn? Matt: I am so annoyed about that actually because LinkedIn is not built for creators and you can't really, for example, on Instagram, you have trial reels where you can push videos to non-followers and then you get engagement from those changing for very specific variables. Matt: So you can change captions and then whatever works, you post again, but changing for a different variable. LinkedIn, you don't have that. So what I used to do is post same time. So 9 AM, I always post at 9 AM and I think I should test different times actually, now that I'm thinking about it, but I start with 9 AMs and then I post, see how it performed. If it doesn't perform, I just delete it and move on. And at first I was going for more. How long? A day, two days. If it gets under, now I stopped doing that. I just, the storytelling method works for me, so I just went with that. But at first I was offering advice for people, but what authority do I have if you don't know me? That was in the very beginning where it didn't really, people didn't know what I do and what I stood for. And so it didn't really make sense for me to offer advice without them knowing. But that's kind of how I AB tested and then trying. Daniel: For the storytelling method with the same type of content, not very effective because again, LinkedIn is unfortunately not built for creators. And I hope one day they either build, either someone builds a new platform to replace LinkedIn. Oh, oh, please, yes. You got to do it, please. Or LinkedIn pushes more features that accommodate for content creators. I don't know, it's a dormant platform. Like most users don't post. They just... Matt: They lurk. Daniel: Yes. Yes. There's such a big opportunity because of that for creating content that's more out of the norm, I guess. Yeah. Matt: Alice and Jen, I think, also brought this up. Like the bar is so much lower on LinkedIn because there's just not as many people creating good content compared to other platforms. And I think I agree with you. Part of it is probably because LinkedIn hasn't done a great job of making it an attractive place for creators to go in the first place. Like they don't have a monetization program. There's no way for you to A/B test. The analytics, honestly, are pretty rudimentary. So completely, completely agree with you there. But I want to like switch gears to like more tactical stuff. When you, when you say decide, okay, I want to post about this idea in my notes app today. Like what's your whole process with writing that post? Daniel: Yes. I usually do it from the hours of 1 a.m. to 5 a.m. because that's when I have time. It's very difficult to find. It's very difficult to find time to write it down. And I don't like using Chat. I used to come up with the initial idea. I use it to refine it towards what I wanted to sound like. But to begin with, I wanted to be very original. And so you got to sit down. I usually go for walks. I really like walking and writing, but sometimes I just can't at 1 a.m. So I got to be in my dorm on the floor. I never sit on a chair. I always go to the floor and just write it down. Actually, pen and paper really helps, but I don't always have time for that. So I think of a story. It needs to be, it's not always interesting enough. Matt: And when it's not interesting enough, I just, sometimes I scratch it. Sometimes I think of ways of making it more interesting. But just remembering the facts, but looking, taking whatever happened, but interpreting it very, very subjectively. So I never take whatever happened objectively. I just think of emotions a lot and try to incorporate as many emotions as I can. What was I feeling when that happened? And then I also think of if it involves taste, even when it doesn't, I think it helps just getting words that associate with whatever topic I'm talking. And then smell and all of the inherently human things and incorporate it into the writing. And I used to be an English major. And so that comes back and the English major inside me comes back and I just write like crazy. And, oh, oh, please, yes. Daniel: You got to do it, please. Or LinkedIn pushes more features that accommodate for content creators. I don't know, it's a dormant platform, right? Most users don't post. They just... Matt: They lurk. Yes. LinkedIn lurkers. Yes. There's such a big opportunity because of that for creating content that's more out of the norm, I guess. Yeah, Alice and Jen, I think, also brought this up. Like, the bar is so much lower on LinkedIn because there's just not as many people creating good content compared to other platforms. And I think I agree with you. Part of it is probably because LinkedIn hasn't done a great job of making it an attractive place for creators to go in the first place. Matt: Like, they don't have a monetization program. There's no way for you to A-B test. The analytics, honestly, are pretty rudimentary. So I completely, completely agree with you there. But I want to, like, switch gears to, like, more tactical stuff. When you say, decide, okay, I want to post about this idea in my notes app today. Like, what's your whole process with writing that post? Daniel: Yes, I usually do it from the hours of 1 a.m. to 5 a.m. because that's when I have time. It's very difficult to find time. It's very difficult to find time to write it down. And I don't like using Chat at least to come up with the initial idea. I use it to refine it towards what I want it to sound like. But to begin with, I want it to be very original. And so you got to sit down. I usually go for walks. I really like walking and writing, but sometimes I just can't at 1 a.m. So I got to be in my dorm on the floor. I never sit on a chair. I always go to the floor and just write it down. Actually, pen and paper really helps, but I don't always have time for that. So I think of a story. It needs to be, it's not always interesting enough. And when it's not interesting enough, I just, sometimes I scratch it. Sometimes I think of ways of making it more interesting. But just remembering the facts, but looking, taking whatever happened, but interpreting it very, very subjectively. So I never take whatever happened objectively. I just think of emotions a lot and try to incorporate as many emotions as I can. Daniel: What was I feeling when that happened? And then I also think of if it involves taste, even when it doesn't, I think it helps just getting words that associate with whatever topic I'm talking. And then smell and all of the inherently human things and incorporate it into the writing. And I used to be an English major. And so that comes back and the English major inside me comes back and I just write like crazy. Matt: And, oh, oh, yes. You got to do it, please. Or LinkedIn pushes more features that accommodate for content creators. I don't know, it's a dormant platform, right? Most users don't post. They just... Daniel: They lurk. Matt: Yes. LinkedIn lurkers. Yes. There's such a big opportunity because of that for creating content that's more out of the norm, I guess. Daniel: Yeah. Alice and Jen, I think, also brought this up. Like the bar is so much lower on LinkedIn because there's just not as many people creating good content compared to other platforms. And I think I agree with you. Part of it is probably because LinkedIn hasn't done a great job of making it an attractive place for creators to go in the first place. Like they don't have a monetization program. There's no way for you to A/B test. The analytics, honestly, are pretty rudimentary. So completely, completely agree with you there. But I want to like switch gears to like more tactical stuff. When you, when you say, decide, okay, I want to post about this idea in my notes app today. Like what's your whole process with writing that post? Matt: Yes. Matt: I usually do it from the hours of 1 a.m. to 5 a.m. because that's when I have time. It's very difficult to find time. That's the problem. Sometimes I write it during class. Whenever I zone out, I hope my professors never watch this. But whenever I zone out, I just write. And go for it. One thing that I noticed was you said you really focus on like the emotions and thinking about how was I feeling during this particular moment. And I think you hit on a really important point about storytelling, which is that it's not just a regurgitation of the facts of like this happened, and then that happened, and then this. It's like the best storytellers in my experience are people who, or content creators who are able to really like immerse themselves and, okay, like these were the inner thoughts that, like, I was thinking, I was having like a like an oh shit moment, or I was like, you know, how was I physically feeling, you know, my stomach dropped, or, um, you know, just these like Very visceral like gut reactions and feelings that everyone can relate to, doesn't matter who you are. And I think, yeah, it's at the end of the day, it's showing, not telling, right? You are, you're really focusing on those emotions and how you're actually feeling. So I think that's right on the nail. Hit the nail on the head right there. I feel like reading fiction really helps. I don't read fiction. I think I should read more to master that storytelling with the emotion aspect of posting. Daniel: So if I could recommend anything to anyone trying to create content that feels more authentic, is reading or listening to audiobooks, though it's not the same the reading. I think emotion is huge because ChatGPT can't nail it, quad can't nail it. Like that's what makes us human and at the end of the day, we aren't posting, like, you're posting to other people on LinkedIn. No, I probably should iterate my posture too, but I'm, I'm chilling and sweating, it's pretty hot in here. Matt: So you're basically, and one thing that is kind of different about your process, I think, is that you mentioned um sometimes you try to like write it on paper as opposed to like just typing it on your phone, on your laptop or your phone even. Uh Why do you think that? Why do you think you prefer to do something like that? Is it related to like the journaling thing, or? Daniel: I think you're forced to think more deeply about things when you write it down because the process of deleting is more, it takes more work for you to pick your eraser and as opposed to just quickly typing, clicking a button, and everything is, is gone. So before you write it, you need to think more not only about the content and the full sentence, but for each word, you got to think very specifically about what words you're picking and, you know, going from there. That's my whole thing. Also in general, it's because it helps with memory. So I just like writing things down on paper. Daniel: Whenever I go to a meeting, you will see me with my purple note, actually not purple anymore because that ran out of pages because I fully used it. But now I have a red one. So whenever I go, you will see me with my red notebook and my pen just writing things down for memory consolidation. And yes, more generally because of memory, but more specifically for the creative process because it forces me to think more deeply about each word to form a sentence. Matt: That's what makes a lot of your content stand out to me a lot, that you're willing to say things that a lot of us think, but don't necessarily say. And it's almost like getting over the cringe factor of like why you started making content in the first place. And I think that's what makes it so authentic and you can get so much emotion out and connect with the audience because you're willing to say things that not everyone's willing to say. Daniel: It's cringe for whatever reason to talk about it. Yes, it's scary. Not gonna lie. I post and then I run away and then I go do other things and come back. Actually engagement matters a lot. So replying to all the comments. So I do come back to reply to the comments like and then run away. Matt: In the first hour or how? Daniel: In the first hour. Matt: Okay. Um I read somewhere that you should reply to all the comments in the first hour. Daniel: Us too. I haven't found the source of it. Everyone says it. Someone, someone somewhere said it. So we do it. And I feel like it helps. Daniel: Also engaging with other people's posts right after you post, I think really helps. Are you spending a lot of time commenting on friends' posts? Because I think comments are a hack too to grow. Matt: Yes. The thing is finding the time to do that in between classes and projects and sleep. How do people sleep these days? I don't know, but it's just hard to find the time. But whenever I can, whenever I have some free time, I go and I comment and I, I think it's very important. It's just as important as creating, is engaging with other people and supporting other people. Even if you're not close friends with whoever is creating content, like showing consistent support over time um is very important. Why would people support you and cheer for you and engage with your posts if you're not doing anything for them? Daniel: So I think it's. Yeah, I think that's so important because usually when, and myself included, like when I started posting, uh, I think a lot of people think that, well, I just need to start posting like consistently, right? grow, but I think the engagement piece is actually maybe even more important of like, it's a social network for a reason. It's not just like you, it's not like your blog, right? Like you're not just like pushing stuff out there and not engaging with your audience. And so I feel like commenting, engaging, DMing people, like building genuine relationships on LinkedIn is something that more people a hundred percent should be doing. Matt: I agree. Daniel: I have this one friend, now a friend, who reached out for a Zoom coffee chat. We had a coffee chat. It was so fun, so much fun. So we scheduled a second Zoom meeting. And now whenever he posts, I run to comment. Whenever I post, he runs to comment. So finding connections in that way, even though you don't know each other in real life, but you're there no matter what, whenever the other person posts, it's very powerful. Matt: Yeah. One thing that I always say is that creating content is essentially like networking at scale because you're finding people that really resonate with your content. And so like chances are like you guys have similar values or beliefs or like you're both interested in a similar topic. And it's just like much easier to find people that are very similar to you and that you'll get along with than if you were not creating content and just like, I don't know, going to not saying like in-person events aren't good. I still think there's a place for that. But it's a lot easier to find people that you get along with. And I mean, Daniel and I, like, we met on LinkedIn too, so. Daniel: Really? Nice. Well, who reached out first? Do you remember? Matt: We have so many LinkedIn DMs that honestly, it would be so hard to get to the top. I'm curious, I'll have to scroll up. It would take like a day to scroll up, but because I'm constantly sending Matt profiles saying which post is good. Daniel: Yeah. Whatever. We should use this. Yeah. It's a good platform to make friends. Matt: I totally agree because everyone, like having a hack too for networking, I don't know if you've done this, but like if you're going to network with someone, if you comment on their stuff too, it increases your odds so much that they're like gonna respond to you. Like, it's awesome. Daniel: Totally. Yeah. I'm kind of scared. I'm not scared, but I find a concept of networking really, I don't want to say the word cringe, but I'm going to say it. I find it very cringe. Just the idea of networking and trying to connect with someone for the purpose of professional benefits. But I think also this new wave of LinkedIn content creators is kind of lowering the cringe factor and making it more acceptable in a way to reach out and try to form a connection, but not only thinking about this is very professional and you should be very serious. No, you can just be human. You can be yourself. And that's totally fine because at the end of the day, we're all just hiding behind a professional LinkedIn profile, but we're all humans and authentic in our own different ways. Matt: Yeah. There's just something, I don't know, Julia, you probably feel this way too. There's something really almost like freeing about putting your thoughts out there. I think it's because you're, you're almost like being more true to yourself. Daniel: You're not like putting up a persona or a front or, and for a lot of people, maybe they feel a little bit like stifled or they're on LinkedIn and they don't really want to post even though they think they have a lot of thoughts. And when you, when you put yourself out there and you, I mean, I still remember the first time I post on LinkedIn, I was like, and not like the I'm happy to announce that I got a job at BCG kind of thing. The first time I made like a legit post, I, I, I remember I posted it and then I ran away from the computer because it felt so cringe. And I mean, Daniel, maybe you had a moment like that. Matt: But now you, but after posting like so many times, you sort of get over it and it feels good to like have the freedom of being like, okay, I'm going to put my thoughts out there. And I know that isn't like, not everyone will resonate with it a hundred percent of the time, but like there are going to always be people that do so. Yeah. And that's what matters. Just filtering whatever you don't want to hear, all the negative feedback. Of course, wait, if it's constructive, yes, you should take the constructive feedback, but there will always be your content. If it's viral, it will always be polarizing. Some people will hate it. Others will love it. And as long as more people love it than hate it, I think you're okay. The last thing I'll say on that is like the virality piece. Um, so I also post on YouTube and on LinkedIn and I've noticed. You're absolutely right. Matt: When a piece of content goes viral, it goes viral for a reason. It's triggering some kind of really strong emotional reaction. And there's just the law of large numbers. Like there's going to be, you hit like a hundred thousand impressions, there's going to be someone that's like, doesn't have something good to say. And I noticed you made a post recently about like virality for the sake of just going viral. It doesn't really mean that much if you don't use it to like build trust or, you know, have an end goal in mind. So I just want to dig into that a little bit more. Like, how do you think about like going viral, content creation, what's the end goal, things like that. Daniel: Yes, I think some people start creating content just for the sake of virality and think that going viral will solve all of their problems, but it doesn't if you don't have a strong community behind it. So I made a test on Instagram. It wasn't necessarily on TikTok, but I went to Instagram and I was trying to make my videos go viral on purpose because I never really tried my sole purpose is to build a community. And so I post videos not necessarily thinking about numbers, and I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should think more about numbers. But for that specific set of content, I made it a goal to go viral. And so I grabbed a hook, I grabbed a short form that works, and it went viral. And I got nothing from it. Matt: I think I get more from my videos that don't have as many views, but build community and get me followers. And following, if you follow someone, it means that you want to see more of their content, right? And so I think that should be the main metric, not necessarily the number of impressions that you're getting, but the number of followers that you get. And going viral, yes, should be the goal. Because, wait, it should be the goal once you have a community. Right? But you shouldn't have the only… Going viral shouldn't be your only goal. It should be building a community and a community that is so strong that your content will go viral over time. Yes, I think that sums up my thoughts on it. Daniel: Yeah, Matt and I have been saying the same thing. And going one step even deeper, within the community, we've been thinking ourselves that something, like one of our missions is to create content that we wish we had when we were on LinkedIn. Is there a something like that for you or a goal you're taking your audience on when you want people to join your community? Or is that something you've thought about? Matt: It's something that I should have thought about more deeply, but I just want people to know that I have a very… People don't know my story at all, and it's not something I share publicly. And so I want to, over time, tell my story in depth and hopefully inspire people in that way. But I haven't really thought of a long-term goal for it. I started relatively soon. Matt: It was in July, so it's been three or four months. Four months. But I should think about long-term strategy. But, okay, my three main goals for the long term. Talk about marketing. Talk a lot about marketing, especially now with AI. There's so much to uncover with these new tools that are developing. And I want to build a community around that, definitely. Storytelling by telling my story. And I think that all falls under creativity and artistry in a way. So creating a community of creative people, I think is my end goal with LinkedIn content creation. Daniel: Does that answer? Yeah, I think that absolutely answers the question. It sounds like the community that you've been creating and that you want to continue creating is kind of like a group of people that are maybe interested in marketing and aware of the implications of technology or curious about like how is AI going to influence marketing and are also maybe self-reflective and think beyond just like, okay, how do I go viral, right? Like they want to really understand it and have a good reason for doing the or creating the content or going viral. And I think there's a lot of people that are going to be interested in just following your journey as you figure that out. Matt: Hopefully. I don't know. We'll see as we go. What makes you want to choose LinkedIn? I mean, I know you're posting now more on Instagram and other platforms, but LinkedIn specifically, you've had a bunch of success with it. Daniel: What else are the reasons that you love the platform so much? Yes, it's an underutilized platform. First of all, there's a lot of opportunities there, especially for creatives trying to make LinkedIn trying to take LinkedIn to a more creative route in a way, less professional, more human, more authentic. Another reason, writing is much faster than video form and LinkedIn works best with writing and usually a photo. And that's great because it takes 30 minutes to, actually I lie, it doesn't take me 30 minutes, it takes me at least an hour for each, but it's much faster than coming up with a script for a video, recording, editing, thinking about sound. There's so much that goes into it. It's just a more convenient way of doing it. And I just like the LinkedIn community. I actually enjoy talking to people and um meeting people in that way. Matt: Yeah, those are my main reasons. Us too, I think it's a much more positive community sometimes than other platforms. And it might be because everyone's name is associated with the comments. Daniel: Yeah. I also really like that. People are more game. You're not getting as many hate comments as you would on TikTok or Instagram. Matt: Yes. It's so sad how people need to hide behind a screen to spread hate around. But I'm glad that LinkedIn is, you need to have your face attached. Actually, you can also just create a fake profile and go around hating on people, but why would you do that? Daniel: Right. Yes. Yeah. I mean, 100% agree. Matt: I was just going to say on the hater comments point, like I always tell people who are like friends of mine who ask me about like, hey, I want to get started with content creation, but like I'm a little bit hesitant because of the, the online scrutiny and I don't want to get hate comments. And I tell them, well, it's kind of like, if you want to get to a certain size, it's kind of par for the course. And over time as I've, you know, I started on YouTube and I've, I've grown my channel to over a hundred thousand and obviously more recently growing my LinkedIn audience. One of the things that I've noticed is that you never really stop caring. Like it's not like I don't feel it when I see a hateful comment or I read someone's like negative comment on a video or on a post. But I think over time I've just gotten better at not really internalizing it as much. And you have to have a really strong filter of like, is this constructive criticism versus just like unbased criticism from someone who has never done the thing that you want to do or isn't like in a position of like authority or one thing for me is like, I try to only take advice from people that are maybe living the kind of life that I want to live. And so that's like a really good rule of thumb that's served me pretty well. Matt: But I completely agree with you, like dealing with the hate comments and not letting it get to you is so key, especially if you're a creator who's like going viral and new to this whole like, oh, negative criticism from the public and from millions or thousands of people that I don't know hiding behind their screens. Daniel: Yes. In the beginning of my posting journey, I made a post about Mark Zuckerberg and having a fake Zoom meeting with him because there was a trend going around of somebody else in a Zoom meeting with, anyway, it was a different trend, but I adapted the trend to Mark because he also came here and he dropped out. And so I thought, oh, I'm going to make the connection. And it went viral and I got my first hate comment there. And this woman goes, so you have no morals for doing that, something about my morality. And a partner at some big firm replied, wait, she replied to his comment saying, oh, I've lost my trust in your firm because of your comment, yada, yada, yada. And I was like, why, why are you doing that? And that was my first, my very first interaction with hateful comments in a way or comments that don't necessarily support you. And I was personally offended for a little bit, for a few minutes, but after I realized people are going to hate no matter, no matter what, and very important to filter and know how to filter accordingly. Matt: I want to get more tactical into some LinkedIn rapid fire questions, okay? Daniel: Yes, let's do it. Matt: You, you started making a bunch of videos. Yes. You know, your company over the summer, you still make some videos on LinkedIn, but what are your thoughts on LinkedIn video right now? Daniel: I think it's a way of sending out. Everyone's posting the photos with the text. When you have a video, you have a lot of startup launch videos and that's most of what the video content you get at least on my feed, but it might be. Us too. No, us too. That's an easy way to get a bunch of. But you don't really get content that offers value, but. In a different route, not in the startup launch video scene. And so I've been trying to work on my editing skills and storytelling skills through video and posting, see how it works. A reason why I do it is because I can also post it on Instagram. So it's two in one, if I'm being very honest. It's just for the... Matt: But I prefer video over text more generally because I am including my writing in spoken form, which I enjoy. But I feel like people should post more videos on LinkedIn. I really like them, the ones that are not startup launch videos. Not that I don't like startup launch videos. I do love them, but I also like the other type. What are your thoughts on horizontal versus vertical? Because I've seen you experimenting with both. Daniel: Yes. Yes, vertical doesn't really work for LinkedIn. Yes, they have the specific page for vertical content, right? Matt: The feed. Daniel: Yeah, on mobile, but... But it doesn't really work. So I just go for horizontal on LinkedIn. Matt: That's part of my A-B testing, A-B testing LinkedIn experience. What about the power law? So are most of your posts driving most of your followers? Like, you know, you've had some mega viral posts. Are those where you're literally seeing thousands of people follow you from? Daniel: Yes. For one of them, I got 2,000 followers, but the other ones are not as, as, whoa. Yeah. But I don't really know. I kind of, whenever I post, I kind of have an idea of what will resonate and what won't. Sometimes I post it anyways because I just, I want to get it out there because it's what I'm thinking and what I want to do. Matt: Yeah. How many impressions does your most viral post have? I have no idea. You don't check it that much? You're not an addict like me. Do you want to pull it up? Daniel: I can pull it up. This one at 356,000 impressions. It's fascinating to hear that because this is viral on LinkedIn, right? But like, you can post on Instagram and get millions of views easily. Matt: Yes. Yeah. 350 and 6,000 likes. Daniel: Yeah, but this is not, in different platforms, this is not close to viral, which is interesting. It's, it's fascinating because, you know, there, okay, so a little LinkedIn trivia, I guess I'll ask you if, if you want to participate in a little bit of LinkedIn trivia. How many users are on LinkedIn? Matt: 6 billion. Daniel: No, there are like 8 billion people. I think there are 8 billion people in the world. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, I don't know. 6 million. Matt: There are 1.2 billion people on LinkedIn. Oh. So pretty big. I mean, you know, around like what, 12 and a half percent. I don't know why I said 6. Um, so yeah, they're like 1.2 billion people on LinkedIn. What percent of the U.S. do you think is on LinkedIn? 40, 50, 60, 70, 60. Daniel: 73. Oh. Crazy, right? Matt: That is a lot of people. Daniel: Yeah. And yet they never post. They never post and the posts don't go that viral either, which is like really crazy to me to think that something, you know, the scale of LinkedIn, you don't get as many impressions, but it feels like when you post something like that, everyone, practically everyone has seen it, but we do really live in such a bubble. Matt: We do. Wow. We need a new platform. That's what I'm hearing. Daniel: I don't, I don't think we can do it. It would, it would be tough for sure. Matt: We should, or we could just hop on Lovable and just be like, you know what, let's just vibe code the next LinkedIn. Daniel: Yes. Can't be that hard, right? Matt: Yeah. No. You never know. If I go to Lovable, go to, yeah. You can have an MVP in a few hours. Test it out on LinkedIn. Have your LinkedIn people test out. You could do that. Daniel: What else do you think about general, like, profile things of having your profile, like, any tips or things that you always look out for in your profile to make it clean, whether it's the about section, your experience? Matt: My about section, since I first started, used to be not very traditional. Matt: So I remember in my about form, I wrote something along the lines of, first things first, coffee connoisseur, La La Land enthusiast. So very true to who I am as opposed to strictly professional. And I remember some of my friends going, Julia, what is this? Why are you? This is LinkedIn. Why are you doing that? And I'm like, it's who I am. It's who employers should know me, how employers should know me, right? Before I am a resume or before I am this static page with accomplishments, I am someone who really likes coffee and who really likes La La Land, right? Which might not be the best approach. Not necessarily, but I think for the profile page, just showing who you are and not who you want other people to wait on, you know what I mean. Daniel: You're right, you're showing emotion, you're being authentic. It's just like a regular post for you. Yes, my banner too. I was kind of hesitant about putting that banner. It's very unserious, but it shows who I am and what I stand for. Matt: Yeah. I love it. I've never seen another one with the iMessage like that. It was very creative, I thought. My friend, my marketing group co-founder has the same one. We're matching in that. Yeah, I wish, I actually wish LinkedIn had the option to make it a portfolio, to make your page a portfolio where it's moving and you don't have, not everyone has the same profile, so you can move things around. You can, that would be so cool as opposed to having this. Daniel: It's also very inconvenient to click to see all the posts and then you need to scroll down. The post search feature is awful. Like, even when I'm searching my own post, I'm like, I'm either going to do the image, scroll through the carousel, that's awful. Yes. I have a lot of work to do. Matt: One of my friends at a Brown entrepreneurship club made a LinkedIn for graphic designers. That was like their pitch they made. Oh. And everyone loved it. They didn't end up going through with it, but it was an interesting concept. Daniel: I had that. What happened? Uh, they went down the consulting route. Don't think about it again. Yup. Is there anything else where if you could talk to the LinkedIn CEO right now, you'd be like, please change this, or please add this feature? Anything else that we haven't talked about yet? Matt: We kind of touched fondness briefly, but I would ask them to make it more creator friendly. There's a lot of opportunities to show who you are. Um, also you can really edit anything that you do. For example, if you post something and you don't like it, you want to change something, you can't really change a photo, or you can really do anything. You can't post more than, actually, I think you can, but you don't, you can't really post a video and a photo. My point is, it's very limited. Whatever you can do is very limited. Also the text, you can really modify if you want to emphasize something, you've got to suffer through it. The bold text looks so weird. Yes. Matt: Why does it look so weird? Yes. I love bold text. But it looks awful. There are a lot of missed opportunities. Why? I'm so curious. Also building communities. There might be, you can create group chats and you can create. No one checks LinkedIn groups. No one, exactly. But there might be a way of organizing communities more effectively than it is done currently. I think that's one of the hardest problems for creators, because even on, or not LinkedIn, YouTube, they have the similar problem. So a lot of these big YouTubers who want to have a community, they're not doing that on YouTube. They're doing that on Patreon or they're doing it on Discord or even Slack. Like that's what acquired does. Daniel: Yes. And like I understand the problem very well. And back to the page, I wish it was more, you could personalize it. Yeah. Oh, also for scheduling, if you post consistently, there's not really a central space for you to organize your content and post it and, you know, get inspiration from, you know how on Instagram you have the creator insights where you can get inspiration from creators that are similar to you. You can get tips. You have none of that. When you're scheduling posts, how far out are you scheduling? Are you going to schedule your content for a week out and you don't have to be stressed that week or how do you think about that? Matt: When I have time to write everything in advance, most definitely. Matt: And it's kind of annoying because sometimes I schedule for the entire week and there are people that I haven't replied to and they see my posts. They're like, why haven't you replied to my message? I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm not actually on LinkedIn. I just, you know, so there's that, but that's on the side. It's usually these days, especially at this time where I'm insanely busy. There's no time for anything. I just do it the day before on the 1am to 5am timeframe that I have and go for it. But it happens very quickly. I just Right now I don't have the time to plan. Daniel: I'm sorry, I talk so much. No, this is perfect. How do you spend most of your time? I mean, you've got so much going on between your marketing club, posting on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, actually going to class at Harvard. Matt: School. I go to school, but I chose my classes to be very aligned with what I want to do in the future. So I'm taking a class on design, which really helps me with what I'm doing. Another one on security and privacy, which also really helps me with what I'm doing. And another one on globalization, which also really helps me with what I'm doing. And yes, I post a lot on LinkedIn, but I'm actually moving in silence. I'm working on this startup, and nobody knows about it. Daniel: That's what you're so busy on. Matt: Yes, nobody really... I haven't posted about it yet, but that's where most of my time goes, and it's kind of related to the marketing group that I'm running. Daniel: We actually have a launch happening on November 7th, and we're running a... Well, this podcast will be out after November 7th, so this will be a perfect way to promote it. Nice! Nice. We're doing a big guerrilla stunt around campus. Yes. You guys, hopefully you'll see it. You're invited to come if you want. Matt: I'll repost it. I mean, I'll be posting. Is November 7th, is that a weekday or...? Daniel: It's a Friday, but the guerrilla stunt is happening on Saturday. Matt: Okay, well, I'll definitely be around on Saturday. Daniel: Yes, yes. Matt: Okay, let's... If you need someone in a gorilla suit, I'll even pull up in one too. Daniel: Wait, really? Matt: Yeah, I'd do it. We'll chat later. Daniel: Yeah, but it will be crazy, hopefully. Matt: Yeah. Awesome. It's just that idea of taking whatever people are doing and doing the opposite. That's what we're going for. And writing LinkedIn posts, that's what I spend a lot of my time. Daniel: How are you gonna think about marketing the startup? Is LinkedIn gonna be your primary platform, or...? Matt: I'm building the distribution channels slowly. LinkedIn is the primary one. Yes, also going for Instagram. Not only, not really TikTok. I'm not a fan of TikTok. I mean, there is value in it. I see the value, but I'm more on LinkedIn and Instagram. Daniel: I'd do the same thing if I were you. I mean, I don't even know if it's a B2C or B2B, but I'd still do it. I mean, I talk about this all the time. Daniel: I feel like probably way too much, but I had a B2C startup over the summer that went from 0 to 10,000 users in eight weeks because of posting on LinkedIn. Oh, yes, LinkedIn. Yeah, it really helps. Yeah. Yeah. No, LinkedIn is... I mean, I feel like, Daniel, you and I were like screaming it from the rooftops, but more people need to realize that LinkedIn is actually a, like a goldmine opportunity in 2026. Matt: Like, if you're a B2B or even like a B2C business with some sort of angle where you're trying to work with people who are decision-makers at companies, then you need to be... It's not like a, a nice to have. It's like a need to have, to have a presence online. And ideally from the founder or the management or someone high up, not just the company page, because I don't know if you're seeing the same thing, but like, a page, a post coming from a person's page is always going to be a post coming from a company page. Because people want to follow people. They don't want to follow logos or brands. Logos don't have emotion. Daniel: Yes. I actually, as I mentioned, I had no idea what I was doing before I started. And so I was posting on the company page, and it wasn't getting any engagement. Matt: For text. Yes. And I freaked out and I thought, oh no, let's go to Instagram and try there. But no, the key was just using your personal brand to build the company presence. And the personal brand also stays in the long term. Daniel: Whoever you interact with in the future, the first thing that they do is likely Google you. First thing that they'll see, a bunch of your in their thoughts and all the wonderful things that you do that are not really in your resume. Matt: Julia, before we get into good idea, bad ideas, is there anything else you want to tell the audience about? Daniel: Oh, just go for it. Don't really overthink. It will be awful in the beginning, but study. I think studying what other people do is key. Take your favorite creators, follow them closely, try to see what works, what doesn't work, and then go from there. But just not being... Just remember that we're all gonna die in a hundred years and nothing of this will matter. So why not just go for it and build your own, build whatever you wanna do and build a legacy before it's too late. Matt: You're here to hear first. All right, so Julia, I've got six very official good ideas, well, good or bad ideas up to your deciding here. And I'm gonna tell you one and you're gonna give us your honest feedback about them, okay? Daniel: Okay, sounds good. Matt: The first one is a 10-minute YouTube-style video on LinkedIn, horizontal. Daniel: Good idea. Good idea because you go into... Ah! Actually, bad idea because people are on LinkedIn. They're usually scrolling after work, during work. They don't really have the time to sit down and watch. And YouTube is there for a reason. Daniel: If people want long form, they go to YouTube, but I see it in a way you post your short-form content on LinkedIn and then a link to your YouTube. So it's, ah, I don't know, I don't have firm opinions on this. But for now, it's a no. Matt: I think that's a great take. The next one is DMing people who like your posts. Daniel: Most definitely, yes. If you have a reason to DM them, don't just don't DM them. I don't know, maybe? Matt: Yes, it's a, it's a good take. It's always good to, to make new connections and make new friends and see where it goes. And if you get ghosted, oh well, you got ghosted, move on. Next one is LinkedIn stories, like Snapchat. You think that would be a good feature or no? Daniel: Maybe. Sometimes you want to post something, but you don't want it to be there long term. Um, or you want to promote an event that is happening that day. And it's also a way of getting people's feeds more easily, right, faster. So it's just there. Matt: And I think those are boring. The story needs to be very, very good for it to work without a supporting image. But it also depends. These are hard questions. Because I, they could totally work. But it's more, as an artist, I would rather have some visual asset to follow. But, yes, if the writing is good, it will perform no matter what. I like the video one, but I think it's almost like a second hook. Daniel: Yes, yes. Last one is removing the profile viewing features. That's something you use a lot, LinkedIn, or no? Matt: I... You're a stalker? Daniel: Actually, this, I am a stalker. Daniel: I, I have mine on private mode, so I don't wanna, I don't want people to know that I stalk them because I actually stalk a lot of people every day. But I like to see whoever viewed my profile. So I guess... Ah, hypocrisy. Do you... Sorry, try that again. Yeah. Do you wanna tell us your startup idea and I can give you some crazy ideas for it? Or do you wanna wait? Because it isn't gonna be posted till after, but you also, there's no pressure. Wait, the launch is for the marketing group, but the startup launch is coming after. But the marketing group launch is kind of like an avenue to the actual thing. Matt: So it's gonna be a little agency for you? Kind of, but not really, but kind of. You will know in the future. All right, excited to wrap it up. Daniel: Yeah. All right, I guess, last question, Julia, where should people go if they want to find you? I think they already know, but... Matt: You should go to LinkedIn. I'm Julia Alvarenga. Username is Julia S. Can I look at the camera? Yeah. Username is Julia S. Alvarenga. My name on Instagram is also Julia S. Alvarenga because unfortunately, somebody somewhere decided to take Julia Alvarenga, so I had to add the S in the middle for context. My full name is Julia Sanz de Alvarenga. Daniel: Yes, don't go to TikTok because I don't really use TikTok and my videos there are quite bad. So LinkedIn and Instagram. Or you can find me in person on Harvard's campus. Just DM me and I'll, I'll come find you. Matt: Thank you for coming on, Julia. Daniel: Thank you. Matt: This was so much fun.