How Danielle makes a living off 70,000 LinkedIn followers 💰

Transcription

Matt: The marketing that we studied at university is nothing like what I have done since in the industry. I hate the word authentic because everybody uses it and it almost means nothing now. Because every single time I refreshed it, it was like another 1,000 likes, another 1,000 likes, another 1,000 likes. I went on a night out for like Halloween or something, and some guy that I went to school with who was in a year above me, he came up to me on this night out and was like, you post on LinkedIn so much. It's so annoying. I had to block you. Building a personal brand genuinely saved my career. Ultimately, the content that drives you is very different to the content that drives engagement. Daniel: I released a book. It's called Booked and Branded, which is essentially just like step-by-step, absolutely everything you could possibly need to build your personal brand on LinkedIn. Matt: I saw it. It's like 60 pages. Daniel: 70. Thank you. Welcome to this episode of Connection Accepted. I have a very exciting guest with me today, Danielle. Welcome to the show. Matt: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Daniel: Me too. You have, honestly, such a phenomenal name that, you know, I have to bring it from the start. It's awesome to have a Danielle on the show. Matt: I completely agree. It's the best name out there. Daniel: So, Danielle, tell us, you know, a little bit more about you, where you're from, where you grew up, and yeah, tell us more about yourself. Matt: Yeah, I mean, I can't say it's that interesting, to be honest. I've always been a London girl born and bred, still live in London now. University in Nottingham. That was, like, the first time I left London, really. And that's kind of the vague background, to be honest. Daniel: Okay, what were you like in high school? Were you pretty outgoing or posting on LinkedIn at all or nothing? Matt: No, absolutely not. I was, honestly, like, quite... I feel like a lot of people thought I was, like, the stupid kid at school. Stupid is probably the wrong word, but, like, I was super quiet. If the teacher ever asked a question, I would never put my hand up, even if I knew the answer. Super introverted, petrified of public speaking. Like, essentially, it was just always in the background of things, would never be the person kind of at the front of the class. And I think I then was always that person who also would go to exams and come out with, like, A's. And everyone was like, what? Like, she knows nothing in class, and then suddenly she comes out of every exam with A's. Like, it doesn't, nothing is adding up. So school was definitely, like, I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and say I hated school. That wasn't the case. Like, school was fine. I was in, like, fairly normal sets and stuff like that in school, but I was just never the person who kind of put myself out there. But yeah. Daniel: Well, you're allowed to like school also. I think, you know, sometimes you could be called nerds, but it's very okay to like school, especially if it's something you're so good at. Matt: Well, to be honest, it's not that I liked school. I think it's really hard when you're growing up to be, like, super quiet in school and, like, have people think that you're not the brightest. I think automatically you like school less when you're not one of the smartest. And I definitely wasn't one of the smartest. I just knew how to study well, I guess. And, like, I knew how to sit myself down and be disciplined with myself when it came to exams. And I think school is not necessarily about, like, what you know. It's kind of how well you can study. At least that was definitely the case in, like, the UK schools. So it's not that I liked school. It's just I was kind of, like, indifferent towards it. My parents were always very much the, even if you're dying in bed, really sick, you're still going to school. So I was always just, like, in school for, like, every single day. Never allowed to take a day off. And it was just, like, it was just school. I liked my friends. That's about it, really. Daniel: That's awesome. So did anything change in college? Did you go to college by home or did you travel more further out? Matt: Yeah, so I went, I went to, I feel like college is different in the States. I'm assuming by college, you mean university? Daniel: Yes, yes. Sorry, sorry. I've been at university. Matt: I was, like, college to us is sixth form. So, no, yeah. So I went to Nottingham for university. And again, if I'm being completely honest, I studied marketing, which is kind of how I got into what I'm in now. Whilst I did well in exams, there was no subject that I would say I was particularly interested in. I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do with my life. My mum at the time was in market research. And I was like, that sounds like marketing. And what she does looks fun. She used to work with brands like Cadbury's. And I was like, great, I like chocolate. So marketing it is. And that was literally what got me into it. And so I went to university, studied marketing. And then, if I'm being honest, I feel like it's the case with a lot of London universities. Like, I didn't go to many lectures or seminars or anything like that. Came out of university with, like, a pretty good... Like, I got my degree. Everything was great. But at that time, I'd already been offered a job. So I took university seriously in the sense of, like, I paid a lot of money to be there. So obviously, yes, I wanted to make sure I got that degree. But I regret not going to more lectures and seminars. I was definitely more there for, like, the friends and the fun side of it. Daniel: I can relate to some of those moments. And I think there's a lot of value to that friends and fun side. But I'm curious, so my university in America didn't have a marketing major. And not many of my friends have studied marketing. Matt: What does that mean in a traditional academic sense? Are you doing any posting on social media? Or can you give us some examples of either projects you've done or classes you've taken? Daniel: I mean, I can't say I learnt too much. I don't even remember much of the university, to be honest. But I will say that a marketing degree was really interesting because I think a lot of people think, like, oh, that's amazing. Like, marketing is such a huge part of life and the world now. But the marketing that we studied at university is, like, nothing like what I have done since in the industry. There was one module in the three, well, I did four years, but there was one module in, like, the three academic years of studying that was digital marketing. And that was it. Everything else was, like, traditional media forms, buyer behaviour. And whilst that stuff is useful, like, it's not stuff that you necessarily need in day-to-day in the industry. So, yes, I studied marketing, but do I think it's particularly, do I think it's helped me any more than anyone else who has studied something else? Not really. Matt: That's fascinating. So more on the... So studying marketing more on the data science side of, you know, trying to figure out buying trends and if you should put a camera in this ad. Or is it more on actually making some of the ads and trying to decode why this Coca-Cola campaign did super well? Daniel: It's so funny because no, not at all. Like, that would have been fascinating. And I would have loved that. And like, like you said before about posting on social media, was that part of it? Like, not at all. We never spoke about stuff like that. It was literally more... One of the only kind of bits that I remember was I was in a seminar and the whole seminar was on, like, the placement of products within a store. And, like, that was probably the most useful kind of lesson that I got from it. We had some stuff on, like, Excel and they made us do, like, the most complicated spreadsheet in the world, which again is useful stuff, but I don't necessarily think it's useful for the creative side of marketing. At least not in the career that I've gone into. I'm sure there are other people who found it incredibly useful, but, um, I just think it was, it was really good that they had marketing as something to study, but it was super outdated. Matt: Were you doing a bunch of paid ad stuff at all too, trying to analyze, like, cost per click and metrics like that? Daniel: Never. Literally none of it. Matt: Fascinating. Daniel: I know. Like, I can't even remember half of it because it was, it was just so much of it was so unnecessary and they had such potential to teach us stuff like that. Like, I would have loved to have gone into my first role after university being like, yeah, I know what this stuff is. But I literally went into my first role being like, I know nothing. Everything I know is because I've posted on Instagram myself. Like, that's it. Matt: What was that first role that you landed after university? Daniel: So I basically did four years at uni. My third year was in an internship and I worked at a recruitment company for a year and that was also when COVID hit. Um, so we were in the office and then basically halfway through everyone went to work from Matt: I think all of us have faced that initial cringe of posting on social media, whether it's internal or external people making fun of you. Did you have any of that? Like, like what happened after your first post? Did it go viral? Did nobody see it? Did you wait to hit post for a month? what was it like? Daniel: To be honest, I can't really remember like my first few posts. I think they actually did quite well because, again, my boss at the time had already built a personal brand. So she was engaging with my stuff, and she had also put a post out saying, I've hired my first employee, and she had tagged me in the post, which meant people, the people who already followed her came across to my account and followed me, which made me building my personal brand considerably easier because I already had, I mean, it was probably like 12 likes on my first post, but I already had like a few likes that were more than just myself. So, yeah, like, I actually can't remember the question. I'm so sorry. Matt: No, we're talking about the feelings of that first post. And when you wrote that first post, I'm sure anyone starting from zero is thinking to themselves, what are they going to post on? And even today as someone who's posted so many, like hundreds of times on LinkedIn, I still face the same question, and I'm sure you do too, Daniel. Daniel: So what was it like trying to figure out what to post at the start because you don't know what your personal brand is going to be built on? I mean, I feel like my answer is literally just, I literally spoke to my boss and I was like, what do I post about? And she was like, just post about social media. And I was like, but I don't know anything about social media. I have been in this job for what, like a month? Like I, I don't know anything. I've only been full-time with you for a few weeks. So it was literally just what should I post about? And I think it was genuinely just a case of whatever came to my mind, I kind of just posted about. My personal brand has definitely changed considerably since I started posting, but my thought process was like, I feel really alone in where I'm at in my career right now. I'm sure other people feel very similar. So I kind of just shared my journey of like, I'm petrified to be posting here. I'm going to post anyway. Let's see where it kind of takes me. Um, and on the question before, because I remember why I was rambling. Um, I, um, was so stressed at the beginning and I think I kept posting and I kind of was like, I don't think anyone's going to see it. Who actually spends time on LinkedIn? Like, let's be honest, it's not really a big deal. Daniel: And at the time it wasn't, but I remember I went on, um, a night out for like Halloween or something. And some guy that I went to school with, who was in the year above, year above me, he came up to me on this night out, on night out, and was like, you post on LinkedIn so much. It's so annoying. I had to block you. I was like, I can never post again. Like, that is so embarrassing. And it was just one of those things where I was like, I can't believe he's come up to me and said that, but I was also at this point, had already started kind of gaining some traction on my posts. And I kind of got to the point of like, who cares? Like, I think you do hit this point with any social media platform of, yes, this is cringe, but if you want it to go somewhere, then it needs to be cringe and you need to get over it and you need to just not care what people think. Like, ultimately, the bigger you get on any platform, whether that's LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, the more hate and judgment you're gonna get and you just have to push through it, basically. Matt: Couldn't agree more. Through Matt. So Matt and I just filmed a video about this, about climbing cringe mountain. And what he realized, getting 150,000 YouTube subscribers is, you know, at first it's cringe and then it's the best idea ever and everyone thinks you're great. But at that same time, because of the law of large numbers, you're also just getting hate because that's like how it works. I think, honestly, when people from high school or college go up to me and, you know, sometimes make fun of you about my LinkedIn, I just thank them for viewing it because, you know, they're, they're pushing it to hopefully other people's feeds as well. Daniel: So true. That, that's how I look at it now. And I think it's so funny because I think the people who judge you at the beginning are always the people that come back and want something from you in the end. Like I get, I get messages from people now who I like never spoke to in school who are like, oh, can you, can you help me with, with my LinkedIn? And like, I'm thinking of starting a business. Can you help me? And I'm like, it's so interesting that like two years ago, you were probably laughing at me behind the screen. And now you're like, oh, actually I see the value in this because she's pushed through that. So maybe I should do it as well. And I think the more mainstream LinkedIn becomes, the more and more people are gonna kind of stop judging. So like now I, I say this to people a lot who are like really scared to post and scared of the judgment that they're gonna get. I'm like LinkedIn is getting so mainstream that if you are getting in there now, people are less judgy than they were 10 years ago. So yes, they're gonna judge you, but they're gonna judge you less than a few years ago. And if you do it in two years' time, it might be like almost too late. So, post on LinkedIn. Matt: I couldn't agree more. Daniel: When I was in the airport earlier today, well, I guess this is technically, technically yesterday, according to Dublin time. But there was a book in the airport on LinkedIn in like the featured section of the books. And yeah, I'm gonna have to send you a photo of it after. And, you know, I was skimming through a few of it and it's a lot of the stuff you post about, I post about, and a lot of people post about, but it was, it was awesome to see that on the way here. Matt: I'm surprised. I wanna know what book it was. Daniel: It was, um, I'm gonna send it to you after. But I, cause I can't remember. It said LinkedIn and it, and it drew me in. Um, I, I wanna go back to your rise because everyone starts from zero on LinkedIn and it's so intimidating. How are you, like writing those posts, deciding the cadence to post, making time for it as you're going from zero to 60 and almost 70,000 followers? Matt: Honestly, I wasn't. I wasn't making the time for it. I had no idea what I was posting, when I was gonna post. I had absolutely no strategy whatsoever other than when I feel confident enough, I'm just gonna hit post on something. So like I don't necessarily think that's the way to do it, but it worked for me. And I think I was like early enough in the LinkedIn thing that that worked. I don't necessarily think that would work now, but I do think there's this whole thing of like, I hate the word authentic because everybody uses it and it almost means nothing now. But like if you just post like yourself and you just post yourself being like brutally honest, you are always gonna grow. Daniel: But yeah, I had, I had absolutely no, no strategy, no thought behind my posts. I kind of set myself a goal of, okay, post once a week and let's see how that goes. And then every single time I would have a viral or semi-viral post. I was like, oh, I actually love this. This is, this is great. And then I would post twice in that week and then I would take two months off because I decided, like, actually, this is really embarrassing and I don't want to do this anymore. So whilst I don't recommend that, like that was kind of my journey and how I grew. Matt: And I think, I think my, my kind of journey on LinkedIn is quite interesting because it did literally start as me doing it because my boss told me I had to do it basically. And then it went from that to, I went super viral on a post, um, talking about the fact that I will never run my own business and never be an entrepreneur, which is now a big lie. But that post got like over 12 million views or something, 100,000 likes. It gained me like 10,000 followers overnight. And I think that was the moment that I was like, maybe I am actually quite good at this. And maybe I am good at writing. And I think again, kind of going back to the school thing, whilst I was never like the top of the class in anything, I always really enjoyed writing. I hated people seeing what I wrote, but I loved the writing part. Daniel: And I think that kind of just fed into why I kept being consistent with LinkedIn because I was like, it's the one, it's kind of an avenue that I can share my thoughts and write things out. And I don't, and I can sound smarter than I do when I'm speaking because I think that was always like the struggle for me. I struggled to kind of articulate what I was trying to say. And also, I am so bad at being put on the spot. Matt: It's so important. Like, if you actually just don't use AI and you just write content like yourself, you are gonna stand out so quickly because everyone is using it. So yeah, I completely agree. I think just, yeah, be yourself is probably the number one tip for growth on LinkedIn at the moment. So when you wrote that 12 million impression post, did you use AI? And when you wrote it, did you know it was a banger? Daniel: No, so it was, it was three years ago. I didn't even know AI was a thing. Very, my knowledge of AI is I have ChatGPT and I ask it questions. I'm really not a techie person in the slightest, and I definitely did not know AI or ChatGPT or anything like that existed three years ago. None of my content had ever been written by AI up until probably the last few months where I've like definitely used it to help me. But no, not at all. No AI or anything like that. And did I know it was gonna go viral? Absolutely not. I typically post at 9am most days. And on this day, it was like two o'clock in the afternoon. I hadn't posted on LinkedIn for about two weeks. And I was like, oh, I should probably post something. This is a random thought I had a couple of days ago. I'm just gonna turn it into a post. Wrote it up in probably 10 minutes, hit post, and then an hour later I went back on LinkedIn and it had like 2,000 likes. And I was like, what? This is so weird. Like my biggest post prior to that was probably 102 or something. Like it was it was nothing in comparison. And I was like, what is going on? And then I actually went away that weekend and literally the entire time I was away, I was just refreshing my LinkedIn because every single time I refreshed it, it was like another thousand likes, another thousand likes, another thousand likes. And I was just like genuinely blown away because whilst I think it's a good post and the message in the post was really important, I wrote it in two seconds. Like I didn't think it was that good. I thought the message was good, but I didn't think the post was that good. And I think that brings it back to what you said a minute ago about like be yourself because that was the most like authentic be yourself post, not authentic. That was the most like be yourself post I could have done because I wrote it in two minutes and was like, yeah, cool, hit post. Matt: It reminds me of Alison Chen, another guest who, you know, she's got a million followers across Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, and she does the same thing with her LinkedIn posts. Daniel: She'll write them in two minutes and those are the ones that do the best for her, not the ones that she's spending hours on. 100% it's always the way, always the way. And it's the most frustrating thing in the world. Matt: Yeah, especially because what we've learned too, and I'm curious if this confirms with your content as well, that, you know, 10 to 20% of your content is driving, you know, 80 to 90% of the returns of impressions, audience growth, et cetera. Daniel: Yeah. Oh, 100%. And I think typically also the posts that quote unquote flop slash like never perform as well are always the ones that personally bring me the most um ROI or clients um and revenue, which I think when I work with clients, I find it really interesting because they're like, well, I want to go viral, but my number one goal is to get clients and like, you know, make make money from this, which obviously makes sense. Um, and I'm like, well, those two things, yes, you can do them at the same time, but ultimately the content that drives revenue is very different to the content that drives engagement. And you need to find a balance there. And that does mean that you're probably not going to be getting 10,000 followers in the next month, but you might make 10,000 pounds in the next month. Like it's, um, it's like a definitely a balancing act there, but I, I totally agree. I think typically like a very small amount of posts is what drives the most. Matt: Yep. At what point in your content and LinkedIn journey did you decide that you want to really pursue this business and go on your own for this? Daniel: Great question. Again, I didn't actually decide it. Um, so essentially last year, like pretty much exactly a year ago to the day, I was still at that personal branding agency. I'd been there for about five years. And my boss basically gave me the option of redundancy. The company wasn't doing particularly well and she was like, either you, we're basically going to go back to where we were five years ago and like massively slim down the team and you're going to have to do a similar role to what you did five years ago, or we can make you redundant. And I was pretty unhappy anyway with where I was at the time. I think I had become very stagnant. I wasn't really learning anything anymore. There was not much opportunity. Well, obviously there was like no opportunity for growth at that point. And I was considering going freelance for a while, but I just like massively lacked the confidence of like who is gonna want to work with me. Like, yes, I have followers on LinkedIn, but I've never posted as a freelancer or as a business owner, or I haven't even posted that much LinkedIn content. Sorry, content talking about LinkedIn. But I was like, do you know what? They're giving me this option. I'm already unhappy in this role. I, I would be stupid not to take it. So I essentially got made redundant exactly a year ago. Matt: And then For the audience's benefit, what does made redundant mean? Daniel: So essentially when a business, I mean, you're asking me this, I'm not even sure myself, but essentially when a business isn't doing particularly well, is this not a thing in the States? Matt: I think it is, but I want to hear your definition and I think we call it something else. Daniel: Okay, fine. So I'm going to get this wrong and everyone's going to judge me for it. But I'm just, I'm going to say what I think it is. Matt: Okay, okay. Daniel: Essentially when a business isn't doing well, they can let go of their employees, which obviously is typically quite difficult to do. Like you can't really fire people without means. So it's instead of firing people, you make them redundant and you basically have to pay them out to leave. So you pay them a certain amount of their salary for them to go is kind of what I think it is. Matt: Fascinating. That's almost a mix of, it pretty much, like by definition, it's almost like severance. Daniel: Yes, yes, I think it's very similar. Matt: Fascinating. You learn something new every day. Daniel: Yeah, it's basically being dismissed from your job because they can't afford to have you there anymore, essentially. Matt: Yeah, you're being laid off. It's a nice, it's a much nicer way of saying it. Daniel: Yeah, but it's like, it's kind of, it's different to being fired because typically you're being fired because you've done something wrong. Whereas this is what a company does before they have to shut down. So if a company were going out of business, they'd probably make a lot of the team redundant first, see if they can be successful with a smaller team and with like smaller assets. So with with where I was, they got rid of like 80% of the team and they got rid of the office and they got rid of like a bunch of different things, like the benefits and all of these different things and basically had like a three man team and work from home. So yeah, that's essentially what it is. Matt: Okay, so after you're, you're made redundant, you're, you're freelancing and you're working for yourself, where, where do you start on this journey? Because it's so intimidating for me to even think about starting something like that on my own. Daniel: So I had probably like 30,000 followers on LinkedIn or something at the time. Um, and I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing next. I didn't know I was going to be freelance. I was like, do I go into a job? Do I do something completely different and like go into a completely new industry? And I was like, do you know what? I'm going to post on LinkedIn that I am no longer at that company because I was essentially tied into that company on LinkedIn. Like everybody knew me as the first employee at this business, um, and as their marketing manager, for example. So I was like, I'm going to do a post on LinkedIn. If you say, let's see what happens next, I've left the company. And that was literally all I did. Daniel: I wrote this post, didn't say I was going freelance because at the time I had no idea I was going freelance and I got loads of DMs from founders basically saying like, oh, we need help. Are you freelancing in personal branding? Can we jump on a call? And I was like, people do actually want to work with me. And I was like absolutely blown away. I was shocked that that people thought my work was good enough that they would want to work with me. And they knew what like they trusted me enough that they wanted to work with me. Matt: So yeah, I basically was like, fabulous. Let's just jump on all these different calls. Had a bunch of calls with different founders and landed like three big contracts within a month or something. And that was literally it. And then I just was suddenly a freelancer practically overnight and the rest is history, I guess. It was like incredibly intimidating. I had obviously never ran a business The agency before I start firing off some questions to geek out about LinkedIn with you. Daniel: No, I mean, like, I think I get asked a lot about, like, it was similar to what you just said, like, was it not so intimidating? And I'm like, it was incredibly stressful and like a scary time in my life, but I think if you are passionate about something, and if you're in a fortunate position like I was, I always say to people, like, just go for it and truly, like, look at your worst case scenario. And if your worst case scenario is fine, then do it. Like, just, just do it and try. And I think with, yeah, I just think, like, building a personal brand genuinely, like, saved my career because I have no idea what I would have done after being made redundant had I not had a personal brand to fall back on. Um, and even if, even if you don't want to do it, like, just do it. Matt: And I think that same lesson you found with the agency of just doing it and realizing how little of a downside there is is probably what I hope a lot of the audience is thinking when they're making LinkedIn content. The downside is really not as big as we put in our head. Like, that's really the only downside when we make content. It's not anything rational. Daniel: So, so true. It's, it's like, it's, yeah, it's so true. I think we make such a big deal of, like, but what if people judge me and, like, what if people think it's weird? And it's like, okay, and. It's like the Mel Robbins, Mel Robbins, um, always says, like, Let them, yeah, let them, the let them theory. Matt: Exactly that. Like, exactly that. Let them. Like, who cares? Because ultimately, like, if I had let that kind of feeling and judgment stop me two years ago, I would definitely not be freelance, self-employed, incredibly happy and, like, working with some incredible brands had I let, like, had I actually cared what they thought about me. Daniel: I totally agree. I want to break down some different parts of LinkedIn and hear your thoughts about them, okay? So, first, you started by saying you post every day at 9am. Matt: How did that come up? Or, or, you know, when you post, I like to post at 9am. Not, you know, 100% the strict rule. But how did 9am come across in your feed? Did you just, like, do you like a habit of 9am? And is there any data to back this up? Daniel: I basically started posting at 9am because that was kind of when I got into the, I got into the office at like 8:45 and at the time when I started posting I was in a 9 to 5 job. So I'd get there at 8:45 and be like, well, I have 15 minutes, so, like, now is the perfect time to write a LinkedIn post and then I would hit post at 9am. Um, and then I could basically just forget about it for the rest of the day. There's not, I think a lot of people post between like 8 and 9 and typically that's because it's kind of when people are settling into work, they're having their breakfast, they're on their commute. So generally, that is a good time to post. Having said that, like I mentioned earlier, my most viral post was at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. It was like 3:17 or something. Like, so no, I don't think there's much proof to back it up. I think a lot of people will tell you that, yes, posting at 9am is the best or posting at 8:17 or whatever it is the best. But I think the, the best time to post is whatever, whatever time you can post consistently at. Um, and I think also it's so industry dependent. You, you, this is kind of for founders, but kind of any industry, like, you know your audience and you know your target customers better than anyone. And if you don't, then that's a problem in itself. But theoretically, you should know them better than anyone. So you probably know, like, okay, actually, my ideal customer typically scrolls on LinkedIn for 20 minutes at lunch. So maybe that's when I should be posting. Um, so I think it's just about trial and error, seeing what sticks with your audience, seeing what doesn't. But for me, 9am was literally just, I can be consistent with it. And I'm not always consistent at 9am. Sometimes I post, like today, I think I posted at 10:30 or something. Matt: Couldn't agree more with what you said. And it really matters the content quality more than what time it's posted. Daniel: Exactly. I, I think this is with with every social media platform. Like I post on, um, Instagram and TikTok a lot as well. And if your content is good, it does not matter what time you post it. If your content is bad, it doesn't matter if you post it at 9am. If you have good content, it will do well because it's good content. So like, I think, stop focusing on the time and like the algorithm issues and start focusing on, is your content actually good enough to do well? Matt: Yep. The, the funniest posting conspiracy has to go to Charlie Hills. Do you know Charlie? Daniel: Yeah, yeah. Have you seen his stuff? Matt: So he was on the show earlier. And what he does is he schedules all his posts out in advance for maybe like 11:30 or 1:30. Whatever the time is. He does it for 11:30. Matt: And then at 11, he'll go into the post editor and hit post now. Yeah, because he thinks scheduling doesn't, doesn't, or like, you know, nukes it or something. I mean, I, I have scheduled all my posts for the past year and I've had some bangers that have been scheduled posted. So I'm not worried about it. Daniel: Yeah, I agree. I think I, I see that all the time and I see it with the same with Instagram. People are like, you, you shouldn't use the scheduling thing. And I'm like, if it makes me more consistent, I'm gonna use it. And I've had viral posts from using it. So like, I think you're being dramatic. Matt: Totally agree. What about commenting for you? Are you blocking off time to comment? How important is commenting to you? Tell us, tell us all about commenting. Daniel: Yeah. I hate when people ask me this question because I think commenting is so important. And I think, yes, you should be engaging with people in your comments because if you want them to engage with you consistently, you need to be engaging back with them, right? Like, it's what builds a community. And I think the same goes for commenting on other people's posts. Like, ultimately, people are more likely to support you if you are then supporting them. So that is how I feel about comments. Do I do that personally? No, I am so bad at it. I think, obviously, running a business, I'm also, um, a qualified PT and doing like online coaching. I also post on three platforms multiple times a day. Life is busy and I don't always have time to sit there and comment on other people's posts for 30 minutes every day. Do I think it makes a difference? 100%. And I noticed a huge difference when I am consistent with engaging with people on LinkedIn in my own content. But no, I don't schedule time every single day to do it because I just don't have the time. Matt: That's okay. That's totally understandable. I wish. It's just, I think it's so hard. And I think, I think a lot of people put so much pressure on themselves to post and to comment and to reply to comments and to DM 10 people every day and to reshare a certain amount of posts and like all these different things. And I'm like, if you have a full-time job and you have a family and you have other commitments and you want to have a social life and you want to have, you want to go to the gym and like eat healthy and cook and all these different things. Like, it's so difficult and we put so much pressure on people. And I think I'm so conscious to not say to people, like, you need to be posting seven days a week and you need to be commenting on other things seven days a week because like, yes, it's my full-time job. So like, if anyone should have time, I should have the time. But it's not for everybody. So like, if you can only commit to posting three days a week and you're not commenting, then like, great. That, that is an incredible place to start. And I think LinkedIn creators and stuff like that like, need to be a bit conscious of that. Matt: And I, and I don't think I see that enough on the platform of, like, not everyone can do that. And like, not everyone's full-time job is LinkedIn. So yes, it's important and building a personal brand and LinkedIn is so incredibly powerful, but you're allowed to have other commitments and, like, it doesn't need to come first all the time. I can tell you're such a good coach and not just LinkedIn, but also physical because it, it, to me, you know, getting in shape and, and being healthy is the same thing as LinkedIn, right? You can't just like all of a sudden go in and start running 30 miles a week and just expect yourself to go viral within two weeks after you post it 30 times on LinkedIn. It's slowly adding in than a couple of years ago. And I did actually share that on LinkedIn. So like, yes, I definitely think it is something that I would share. And I think there's no harm in it, as long as it's not like 100% of your content. Unless obviously you're a running coach, then maybe it should be. Daniel: I hear that. I actually just experimented with a piece of content yesterday about a lesson from my cross-country coach, where he told me the hardest muscle to train is the one in between your two ears when talking about running. And just how it's tough mentally to run. And I felt, you know, the same lesson can be applied to LinkedIn. Matt: Yeah. No, 100%. I think, I think so much of this is mental. And it's just, like, getting over that fear and, like, getting over the hard times. And yeah, no, I totally agree. I agree with your running coach. Daniel: Why do you think that fear exists? Because it really is all in our head. Matt: I think it's just, like, society. I think it's just life. I think we're so scared of, like, doing something outside of the norm or putting ourselves out there. And I think especially when you start, you never feel like an expert when you start. Like, you could have been in the industry for 10 years and then start posting content and still feel like, well, am I, like, am I the right person to do this? And I think it's really hard to kind of get over that and be like, okay, you actually don't need to be an expert to start posting this. I started posting fitness content on LinkedIn, sorry, fitness content on Instagram before I had any sort of qualification or any knowledge really of the industry. Like, yes, I like food and yes, I went to the gym, but like, that was the extent of my knowledge. And the same with LinkedIn. Like, when I started posting, I was an intern. Yes, again, I studied marketing, but like, I knew absolutely nothing, like I mentioned earlier. And I think we're so scared of, like, putting ourselves out there and trying to pretend we're an expert. But like, actually, you don't, you don't even need to pretend you're an expert. You just need to, like, post and be yourself and share those kind of, like, that journey. And I think that's always the content that does best. It's like bringing people along on a journey. Matt: I think that's why your content has done so well, bringing your, your audience along. Have you ever thought about forming a more formal community aspect for some of your audience and other people looking to post more? Daniel: I have. I'm just, I, I don't really want to sound like I'm, I'm slagging off other people who do this in this, because that's not what I'm doing because I haven't seen, I haven't like been in any community. Even if you want to, that's okay, too. I think they're all awful. No, but like, I have, I don't know them well enough to know whether or not they are worth it. But I'm really conscious that I never want to create something that isn't, isn't worth it to people. Yes, I think I have some incredible LinkedIn knowledge and I think I can help a lot of people and I hope I do that through my content, which is obviously free. Um, I would love to have some sort of community, but I just would want to make sure it was good enough and really, really worth every single penny that people kind of put into it. Or even time, not even money, but like time as well. Matt: That makes total sense. And a common theme of something that's been pretty interesting for me to see on LinkedIn recently is that even if you were to do a paid community, I would say about 90% of the advice you give to people in the paid community is going to be the same as your normal content on LinkedIn. You've pretty much shared the blueprint to do it. But it's, you know, one, the actual friction of like engaging yourself in something so you feel obligated to do it and kind of tricking your mind mentally, and also being part of a more formal community and to try to, in a way, peer pressure you to, to post more as well. Daniel: Yeah. No, I, I think there's like so much value in them and any, and communities that I have been in in the past, which haven't been like LinkedIn specific at all, have been like super helpful and super powerful, but I'm very picky with who I would kind of join as a community, like whose community I would join. Um, and I think that all comes from trust in their content. But yeah, no, I do agree. It's just not, it's not something that I'm ready to do just yet. And I also am thinking about a community within kind of like the health and wellness space because like I said, I think there's like such overlap between the two communities. And I think LinkedIn is my full-time job. Maybe I do something in a community that's like my passion project on the side. So I don't know. There's, there's many things floating around in my head, which is why my viral post didn't make much sense of I will never be an entrepreneur. Matt: I love it. Tim, do you know the podcaster Tim Ferriss? Daniel: Yes. Matt: He said, um, and I hope I, I think we get the concept right, maybe not verbatim, but trust is earned in drops and lost in buckets. Matt: And I think it's really smart and diligent the way you're going about monetizing and monetizing might be, I feel like, a little bit of a cringe word, but working with your community and making a living by delivering value and making sure you don't lose that trust in buckets. Daniel: A hundred percent. And I, I think that's where a lot of people go wrong. And I think it's the same with brand deals on LinkedIn. Like I'm so fussy about who I work with and I say no to like probably 99% of people that ask me to do collabs with them. because I'm like, well, if I wouldn't use it and I wouldn't spend my money on it, then I don't care how much you're paying me. I don't want to make somebody else pay for that and then be like, well, Danielle's a liar. Like I would never want someone to think that. Matt: So, um, I think it's really important that you're, you're fussy about that stuff. And, um, I only literally, obviously I work with clients, which is different, but I only just released, I released, um, about a month ago, a LinkedIn playbook. It's called Booked and Branded, which is essentially just like step-by-step, absolutely everything you could possibly need to build your personal brand on LinkedIn. Daniel: I saw it. It was like 60 pages. Matt: 70. Thank you. 70, not 60, 70. And I like put so much effort and hard work into that. And I like think it's an incredibly valuable and everyone who's bought it has messaged me saying, like, this is genuinely, like, I feel like I've just jumped five years ahead on my LinkedIn journey. And, like, that is what I wanted. And it took me months to create because I was so cautious of, like, I made so, I like annoyed everyone in my life because I made 50 people read it like 12 times being like, can you just check this one word of it? Because I was so cautious that I did, I wanted it to be worth it to people. Um, and that was the first thing I've ever put out that I've like made, that I've asked people to pay for. And yeah, I just, I just want to make sure everything I put out and kind of ask people to work with me with is, is so worth it to them. Daniel: Times 10. What makes LinkedIn so worth it to you? Because you're successful on Instagram and TikTok also. Matt: Yeah, I mean, I have no idea. I have, I have no idea. I think LinkedIn is kind of my main job, I guess. The Instagram and TikTok, I only recently started kind of making money from and monetizing there through like brand deals and affiliates and all of that sort of stuff. It's very, I'm very new to that, but it's always been just like a side passion project, whereas LinkedIn has always been my kind of main source of job. I think, I think LinkedIn is so powerful. Like the opportunities on this platform are insane. TikTok and Instagram, people are there to kind of have fun, scroll, see cute pictures, get some motivation and all of that stuff. Daniel: Whereas LinkedIn is, most of the people that come on this platform are here to learn and are here to get them, get like, learn the most they can possibly learn and get the most out of it. And I think therefore it's one of the easiest platforms to make money at and monetize because people are here for that exact reason. Matt: I couldn't agree more. I can get into a million other reasons. Like I think the use case expanding, like TikTok used to just be, you know, middle schoolers dancing. Now it's a huge thing. 1.2 billion people are already on LinkedIn. It's, it's unreal. The growth is going to happen. And I think one thing people miss a lot about LinkedIn is this monetization aspect. And they think you can't make money from LinkedIn. What are some of the ways you make money from LinkedIn and you think are unexpected ways that you may not do, but have seen other people make money from? Daniel: I mean, to be honest, I think it's like most other platforms. Like you can make money through clients where you can have like retainer fees. You make money Seniors posting about an internship they had or something they want or what they learned about their marketing class that hopefully was something super tactical that day. And a bunch of other cool stuff that's not just B2B SaaS. Matt: No, a hundred percent, I agree. We're seeing it more and more, right? Like we're seeing employees posting about like the business and like such random industries. And they're the people who are kind of blowing up right now. And I think it's so interesting to see, and it's so interesting to kind of have watched that develop over the last few years because I was fairly early, not super early, but I was fairly early in the kind of LinkedIn journey and it's so interesting to see the kind of growth and how much the platform has changed. So yeah, it's, it's crazy. What's your current workflow like for writing posts? And you're allowed to say when you use AI, this is a safe space. And I don't know why it's so cringe to use AI because really what matters is the quality of the posts, not how you got there. But walk us through from start to finish how you're writing your posts. Daniel: It's, it's so funny you say that by AI because literally a couple of days ago I wrote a post saying like, yeah, I use AI in my content. You do too. You're just lying about it. Like we all use it. We're all just pretending we don't. And like, I think that's almost more dangerous. Like I think admit you use it, but just make sure you're using it in the right way. But yeah, I guess my workflow is essentially, I know I need to post five days a week. I kind of have like a, these are the sort of things I need to post about in this week slash these are kind of my goals for the week. So whether that's promoting my one-to-one strategy sessions or whether that's like I want a full-time client or whatever it is. Um, so I kind of jot those down at the start of the month, like what's the next kind of month look like for me. Daniel: And then literally in my notes app on my phone, anytime I have any sort of idea or feel a bit creative, I will just jot down something that makes absolutely no sense. And then generally on like a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon, depending on how busy my week is, um, I will just sit down and force myself to write seven pieces of content for the week. And I have two folders on my notes app and I highly recommend this to everyone because it has changed the game for me. I have one that is LinkedIn content ideas. That is just literally just random things I've seen. Maybe it's an Instagram reel that I really liked, or maybe that's a conversation I had with somebody or just a random quote that came to my head. And then I have done LinkedIn content ideas. So whenever I finish a piece of content and I basically will just throw it in there. And then if I'm really not feeling creative on like a Friday and I'm like, I have nothing to post, I will just take from that hit post and that's it. In terms of kind of AI and how I use that, I'm trying to use it less and less because I whilst I do think it is incredibly powerful and I do think I don't think there's any harm in using it. I think we are starting to get to a point on LinkedIn of like robots talking to robots. And I really don't want to kind of contribute to that in my content. And I think the reason my content has always done really well and it's like spoken to people and really helped them is because I am just speaking how I actually speak in real life. Um, but I basically use AI for content ideas and because a lot of the time I write things that just don't make that much sense. So I just ask it, can you just make this make a bit more sense? Can you write this in proper English? And then I always just go in and like re-edit anything it writes just to make sure it actually sounds like me because I mean, let's be honest, we can all tell when something has been completely written by AI. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. It just means you need to know how to use it in the right way. Matt: I love everything that you said there, and it relates to practically every other guest we've had on the show. Kevin Baker, who posts some of the funniest content on LinkedIn. If you haven't followed him yet, Danielle, he always says, save a banger for a rainy day. And that's exactly what you do with your notes app. Um, do you, are you familiar with the rapper? Daniel: Yes. He's actually done some songs with London rappers too, but he, what he does for his songs is he has a notes app full of hooks. And then when it comes time to go in the studio, he'll, you know, take a hook and start rapping. And Noah Greenberg guy that we talked to earlier, he has a notes app. Jack Porter has a notion. I'm a notes app guy. And it's just awesome to hear that a lot of us on LinkedIn have the same content creation process, whether we, whether we realize it or not. Daniel: I think we all, I think so many people overcomplicate it so much and they're like, well, I need to have a full kind of content plan for the month. And like I need to write this on this day and this on this day. And it's like, you really don't. Like it's actually fine. You can just have ideas, figure out which one feels right on the day and hit post. It's like, it really doesn't need to be that deep. And I think those are the people that are typically doing the best on LinkedIn at the moment who are just like not overthinking it. And those people are also more prone to using ChatGPT, the people who are overthinking it because they think ChatGPT is going to give them a concrete answer when in reality, it's the, you know, maybe not the authentic part, but the, you know, not yourself part where you lose the emotion because something I've been talking about nonstop this week, Danielle, is the fact that Do you follow Alex Hermosi? Matt: Yes. And like, they're at least familiar with the concept. And he posts a lot, I guess for the audience's context too, a lot of self-help stuff and how to help you build successful businesses. And if you were to, you know, act on every single piece of advice Alex Hermosi gave you, it wouldn't be possible to do all that stuff. There's just not enough hours in the day. You have to run your business, go to the gym, whatever. And the reason he's such a good content creator is because he gives you the value, but also the emotion of feeling the value. And that's what we want to make sure to give when we're writing content. Not just the value, but the emotion of getting the value from the post. Daniel: A hundred percent. Storytelling is what makes you stand out more than anything. Like, I think so often people share value and they're like, but I'm, I've been sharing value consistently and like my stuff's not doing well. And it's like, because pretty much everything you're saying, you can Google. Like I can ask ChatGPT anything and it is going to give me the answer to it. So I don't really care that you can give me like the top SEO tips or like the top personal branding tips. I care that I care about your story and I care that you can give them to me. Like it's the person behind it and the story that comes with that. Not just the tips. And I think that is kind of the people who outperform on LinkedIn. And again, I think that is why AI is never going to be able to fully take over this personal branding thing because it can't, it can't give those stories. Like it can't, it can't. And it's funny because I set myself a challenge this week of like not using AI for any of my content. I was like, I just want to write like myself like I did five years ago and see if I can do it. Like, don't let myself go on AI. And I shared the first post. Well, I say, I say this week, it started yesterday. I shared the first post yesterday and it was like my best performing post in ages. And I was like, it's, it's so interesting. Matt: Like people obviously can like sense it and they're like, Oh, I like this. It sounds like a real human. And then therefore they obviously engage with it. But I just thought that was really interesting. Before we wrap, Danielle, is there anything else that I should ask you that I didn't or anything else you want to tell the audience about? Daniel: No, I think we've covered everything, to be honest. We have, I, we've gone from all the way at the beginning to, to high school being shy to now geeking out about posting on LinkedIn and full circle, not using ChatGPT, just like when you started. Matt: No, I know, honestly, I think, I think, um, the high school thing is such an interesting conversation because I think so often people are like, Well, I can never do it. I'm introverted. And I'm like, I am so introverted. I'm petrified of public speaking. Podcasts up until a couple of weeks ago, I would never do. I said no to them pretty much every single week. I would always be petrified of stuff like this. I'm hugely introverted and I still post on LinkedIn every single day. So like, it's not an excuse. Daniel: Well, thank you so much, Danielle, for taking the time. And where can the audience find you on LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok to follow along with your journey? Matt: Everything is just my full name, DanielleMoymony on Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn. Awesome.