Episode 6: Social Media 🐐 Talks LinkedIn

This was a really funny one. Hope you enjoy the watch 😄

I also spent a lot of time editing the intro of this podcast. Let me know you feedback and how I can improve.

-Daniel

Here is the transcript so ChatGPT and other AI tools can scrape this episode to give us more SEO/GEO 😄

Daniel Greenberg (00:00)
This is probably the most we've laughed on a show in a while.

Allison Chen (00:02)
Good,

Wait, I would love that, because as you can tell, I love judging people.

Daniel Greenberg (00:05)
Let's go.

Allison Chen (00:07)
If we're getting down to the nitty gritty, I think a single photo, a strong hook, a single photo, three emojis max, three hashtags max. LinkedIn is a simple place.

Daniel Greenberg (00:08)
I agree.

Allison Chen (00:17)
is that bad

one of like my first sort of viral traveling videos is me traveling with a cast iron pan, by the way, illegal, don't do that. But I would do that. And then I would also

the bar is lower to post on LinkedIn. The quality and the entertainment value is way lower than other platforms.

Daniel Greenberg (00:34)
was saying there. Matt, I'm gonna let you take over.

Matt Huang (00:35)
Alright,

Welcome to this episode of the Connection Accepted pod. Today I'm super excited. We have Allison Chen on the pod. Thanks for coming on, Allison.

Allison Chen (00:44)
No, thank you for having me.

Matt Huang (00:46)
So Alison, you are on a lot of social media platforms. I know you're on Substack, Instagram, you're pretty big on TikTok, and now you're also posting long form on YouTube, and you're doing LinkedIn pretty frequently, which is wild. But tell us a little bit more about, like, where did your whole social media journey even start?

Allison Chen (01:08)
Yeah, so I started posting on TikTok about three, almost four years ago now. And I started because I was going to school at the time and I wanted to sort of do a career and academic pivot. So to do that, I decided to take a gap semester. And on that gap semester, instead of getting a job, I just thought about what I would ideally like to do in my dream life. And in that scenario, I really wanted to go to pastry school and become a baker.

So I took a gap semester or dropped out and then went to pastry school for six months and worked in a bakery afterwards and then came back to school and just continued on with my life. But during those eight months of baking, I started making TikToks documenting my experience. At the time I was living in France and going to pastry school. So I was just making...

I was just baking for like six to eight hours a day and then recording videos about it and then going home and editing them. So yeah, that's how I started making videos. And then from there, I just sort of never stopped, especially in that format of just like documenting what I'm doing in the world of food. And then after college, I never got a job. So here we are.

Matt Huang (02:18)
Well, I guess you technically do have a job now, right? You're the chief baking officer at Kitspey.

Allison Chen (02:22)
Sure,

sure. I mean, did I give myself that job title? Yes. But like, I guess there are job parts to it. No, I think originally when I started working with Kitspe, I was supposed to come in sort of as like a CMO, like Chief Marketing Officer, but like that's boring. So I think it was way more fun. It would be a fun thing on the internet if I were the Chief Making Officer.

Matt Huang (02:29)
I'm

Allison Chen (02:47)
But yeah, I still like to pretend that I don't have a job. I think it keeps my days more interesting.

Matt Huang (02:52)
I like that.

Daniel Greenberg (02:53)
How did you come across Kitspe and start working with them?

Allison Chen (02:57)
Yeah, mean, so I've been making content. So during the time that I've been making content, I've also been doing other things like for a summer during school, instead of getting an internship, I was just like selling cookies out of my parents kitchen and then like driving down to New York City to sell them and deliver them to people. So at that time, my friend introduced me to Amy, who's the founder of Kitspe.

And she actually let me use her kitchen at the time to bake cookies. And so that was two years ago. And then just this past summer, she was telling me that she was opening a larger space that was just gonna be responsible for classes and events and things like that. And thought that I'd be a great person to bring on to sort of help with marketing because she's never hired a marketing person before.

prior to this and also she's just been doing it all herself. And at some point you need to scale and like hire people. So I was that person.

Matt Huang (03:55)
And so you guys recently had a grand opening, ⁓

Allison Chen (03:58)
Yeah, we did. It was fun. Why weren't you there?

Matt Huang (04:01)
How did that go?

I, you know, was busy preparing for this podcast, but we'll have to definitely swing by this weekend.

Allison Chen (04:05)
Yeah, whatever you say.

Matt Huang (04:08)
I was actually talking to Daniel right before this that we should both definitely come by Kitspe and check out the baked goods. Daniel sometimes flies down. Right now he's in Boston, but we've got to make a trip.

Allison Chen (04:18)
Mmm.

Yeah,

but basically Kitsby is like a baking studio. It used to be a cafe. And then after COVID, it sort of became really difficult to keep up that operation. Plus baking cookies and cakes and pastries every day is like very labor intensive and also just very complicated in case like your chefs call out sick and all those other things. So then we just took.

the most popular part of the business, is the actual classes, and now we just do classes.

Matt Huang (04:52)
Very cool.

Allison Chen (04:53)
Mm.

Matt Huang (04:53)
Daniel, you and I gotta take a class.

Daniel Greenberg (04:55)
I want to learn how to make one of those that I saw on on Instagram before I was watching the tower. mean, I mean, that was so impressive where you're grading it down. I mean, that was almost like a science. It's like you're building the leaning tower of Pisa almost, but like not leaning.

Allison Chen (05:11)
yeah, yeah, I made, I was making a croquembouche on Instagram for an event that we were hosting there. Yeah, no one knows how to pronounce it. I mean, it's a French word, but yeah, I made those in pastry school. We made like a giant wedding cake version. I've been like making those like every year for the holiday season for different events and things.

Daniel Greenberg (05:15)
Croak and boosh, that's it.

So you're baking this croquembouche. How are you thinking about how you're to make the content around it? You've got a YouTube channel, Instagram, but like everything and LinkedIn and Substack. How are you thinking about content as you're building this like a three day long process of building a croquembouche?

Allison Chen (05:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I would say that now my primary platforms are still TikTok and Instagram. So still short form stuff because that is how I monetize. It's still through short form brand deals. So that's my main priority. And then secondarily, Substack is always a place where I put my recipes. So that's just a sort of like an extra for me right now.

And I think most people prefer what I have to say in video form versus written anyways, so it works out better. And then I think I've recently started YouTube. I started YouTube within like the last month. And so that is sort of a secondary priority to filming the TikToks. For a project like a croquembouche, because it's so timely and like I have to be completely focused on making and I can't really be focused on the content, I'll normally just set up a camera close by and then

it'll just have me film from that angle for like 30 minutes at a time. And then I'll just like switch it because I know like the video needs variety. Now recently I've also hired a video producer to walk around with a regular camera. And that's how I'm going to make a longer form version of this video where I'm probably gonna like answer questions and actually like teach you more how to do it. Because like in the 90 seconds, I definitely can't teach you.

how to make a giant cream puff tower stuck together with burning hot caramel. Because it's just not possible. So that's how I think of it. And I just think of the YouTube videos as a longer version of the TikToks or a way for me to sort of like experiment more and talk more. And I think a YouTube audience is more forgiving in terms of what you're able to include in those videos, just because they're like committed once you get past the first minute, they're like committed to whatever you have to say, so long as it's not super boring.

Daniel Greenberg (07:30)
that honestly reminds me just like Nick DiGiovanni. I don't know if you've seen now, he is now as a second channel and it's just dedicated to recipes and learning how to cook and his first channel is almost like food entertainment, he calls it and it reminds me of just like you're doing. So it sounds like it's a great strategy.

Allison Chen (07:47)
Yeah, the Joshua Weissmans of the world and like Nick DiGiovanni all sort of do that now because the food entertainment still performs way better than just the food recipe videos. So I like to, I like the YouTube videos to sort of just be like documentations of like experiments and things and less about the actual recipes. Cause if you really want a recipe, you're just going to like read it or scroll through it really quickly. It's not like as engaging.

Matt Huang (08:14)
How do you decide what you want to make a video about? You have many, many different things that you've made over the years, but like what goes through your mind when you're like, okay, today I woke up and I want to make a croquembouche. Like how does one decide?

Allison Chen (08:28)
Yeah, mean, I think right now my content is still very reactive, which I actually think is a bad thing. I think people, a lot of content creators will plan out their content based on seasons and based on what's happening. I oftentimes make videos based on what my friends want or what events are happening around me. So in this case, the reason I made this CrocoLouche is because someone rented out the baking studio and wanted a centerpiece.

for the thing, so I made a croquembouche for it. And at the very least, I came up with that idea because I knew it would perform well and I also like kind of enjoy making them now because they're like really large and like no one really sees them and they're not really super common. But I think mostly, mostly it's based on what's happening. Like if someone has a birthday, then I'll just like make a birthday cake for them. Or if there's like a recipe I want to try, I'll just do it. Like the day of and post it like a day or two later.

So it's kind of whatever I'm feeling, which is not how you're supposed to do it, but that's what's working so far.

Matt Huang (09:28)
I mean it hasn't failed you. You haven't run out of ideas.

Allison Chen (09:30)
I mean, it kind

of feels like it does because you do get a lot of anxiety as to what's happening because you have no idea what's happening at any given moment. But like once again, it's been good enough so far.

Daniel Greenberg (09:41)
Your birthday cakes have actually been doing extremely well. And that was one of the first viral LinkedIn posts of mine. I saw it giving a birthday cake to Daniel Min. What was that process like?

Allison Chen (09:53)
Yeah, so for a while I was experimenting with the idea of baking cakes for my friends and things. And I think I'll actually revisit that in a little bit. But at the time, I have a friend, Katie, who I went to college with who also works at Kluwee. And she was asking me if I wanted to come and visit. And I was like, sure, we can make a couple videos in the office and I can cook you guys something.

But one of the also recurring bits, there are a lot of inside jokes that I'm realizing are happening on the page. But one of the other things I do is like, often travel with like weird stuff. So I've like traveled,

one of like my first sort of viral traveling videos is me traveling with a cast iron pan, by the way, illegal, don't do that. But I would do that. And then I would also

travel to different like events with a cake on the plane. So I thought like, it would just be funny.

if I made the cake that Daniel requested and brought it on the plane with me. So he requested a giant taiyaki, which is a fish shaped like pancake with red bean in the middle. And thankfully I have a friend with a 3D printer so we can make that mold and we can make that video happen. But yeah, that's how it came to be. It was really just like what Daniel wanted and I said, sure, I'll make it.

Daniel Greenberg (11:03)
More importantly though, after you give them the cake, you look to what is Matt and I's favorite social media platform, LinkedIn, to post about it. And it goes wild. How did you write that poster, think about writing it?

Allison Chen (11:15)
Yeah, I've been starting to go on LinkedIn more often. I originally started because I actually wanted more brand deals on my other accounts. And I thought that since my niche and my video is a little bit difficult for social media brand managers to find, I was like, maybe I can find them on LinkedIn if I talk about content creation and I talk about the stuff that I'm doing off platform.

So that was the original goal. I don't really know what it is now, but like, it's fun sometimes, I guess. But I started posting about the videos and the video topics that I was making. And one of those just so happened to be that I was going to the Klugeley office. And so I don't even remember what I wrote in the post. I think I genuinely was just trying to explain what happened. And it went really viral. I think one, because of the association with a viral company.

But two, I just think it was a very casual thing and nonchalant thing that I was talking about and people don't do that on LinkedIn.

Matt Huang (12:15)
100%. I feel like it's also not every day that you see a post on LinkedIn about someone who baked a giant taiyaki shaped cake. So that could have also contributed to that.

Allison Chen (12:24)
That too, I guess.

But yeah, that's how it came about.

Matt Huang (12:25)
So I saw that.

Yeah, and we also saw that you recently posted about hiring on LinkedIn. Curious how that's been going. Have you guys found anyone to fill that role?

Allison Chen (12:37)
⁓ at the moment, no. So I was posting about hiring just because I think like my other accounts, people are trying to follow along with the journey of what I'm doing. And so I wanted my LinkedIn to feel similarly. So I've been posting updates about, we're opening this. We need a social media manager, things like that. and so I posted that and I also put a little photo of me jumping cause I thought that would like make it.

a little bit genzy, little bit casual, so that way people would be more enticed to share it and also to engage with it. But yeah, I I put a Google form on it because I don't have access to the whatever LinkedIn hiring we do at Kitsvy. And it's been going all right. I think it's pretty difficult to find someone for this particular small business to do social media just because

I think there's like kind of a Goldilocks problem, like people either don't have enough experience or have too much ⁓ for the person that we're trying to hire. But yeah, it's been going. If anyone wants to apply after watching this, please do. You'll have to work with me. No, I know, very unfortunate.

Matt Huang (13:35)
Interesting.

How unfortunate.

So it sounds like you're looking for someone who's not a complete beginner, but is also maybe early enough in their career to sort of be molded into the type of person you're looking for. Would you say that's accurate or? Okay.

Allison Chen (14:04)
Yeah, yeah. Because I find

like, especially people that are like right out of college might not be able to like take on the responsibility of just doing this and like having the agency to do it by themselves. Whereas quite frankly, a lot of people later in their career, we can't afford. yeah, it's kind of hard to find someone in the middle. And also willing to like...

be in New York and in person and all these other things.

Matt Huang (14:30)
Does your co founder or I don't know if she or boss, I guess technically like Amy does she does she posts on LinkedIn at all?

Allison Chen (14:36)
technically.

So no, and I've actually been encouraging the team to start posting on LinkedIn. It's just once again, like we don't have anyone on social media that's like forcing this down people's throats, which is kind of sad. I get it. No one like wants to post on LinkedIn. There are like so many companies now though that don't even have sales teams. They just have their employees post on LinkedIn and that's how they do all of their sales and all of their sales are inbound.

And so I just like really wish people would bite the bullet of the bite the cringe bullet and just start posting. But for now, it's just me. So that's fine, I guess. But yeah, Amy should be posting more on LinkedIn. And so should the rest of the team. It's just that for the post to even do well, I would have to train all of them or read through all of the posts.

So in addition to like my other social media jobs, it's kind of hard.

Daniel Greenberg (15:32)
totally agree, especially when if a lot of the audience for classes could be companies or, you know, other big companies like that to take a class together, which I would love to do. It's much easier to target them on LinkedIn, especially now when not as many people are biting the cringe bullets, there's a better opportunity for people like us to post.

Allison Chen (15:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, you should have your team come down. You should pitch it to the team. That's why I'm on this podcast, guys. To pitch all of you, everyone you're working with to come book a class for the entire company.

Daniel Greenberg (16:04)
I'm gonna definitely bring it up and we'll see. I'll ask people to more pull than me. I'm curious when you think of...

Allison Chen (16:08)
Okay, okay, was lovely

being on the podcast, guys. Bye.

Matt Huang (16:13)
Shortest pot ever.

Allison Chen (16:14)
Yeah.

Daniel Greenberg (16:15)
I'm curious though, if you were to think of your LinkedIn posting strategy for Kitspey though, is your strategy? What do you want to be posting about that you aren't now? Either from your account or Amy's or whoever's.

Allison Chen (16:26)
Totally. I mean, I just think traditionally, Amy and the team is really bad at like celebrating their wins. And like, I hate it too. Like I do think it's cringy to talk about everything you do in such a saccharine, overly positive way. Like that's so millennial. But there are a lot of things that we do behind the scenes for Quark.

corporate events and for corporate catering and things that they just never talk about. And LinkedIn is the perfect place to do it. And so I just really want them to post about those things, but also a lot of the times they forget to take photos of the fact that it even happened. So even simple things like that. I mean, you can get into the more personal stuff of like, these are things that we're struggling with in the business and things and like...

how they personally feel about the projects that they're working on. But I think even simply posting about the fact that stuff happened needs to be online.

Daniel Greenberg (17:24)
I totally agree and I wish I could see some of the behind the scenes of Kitsby and all the stuff you're doing. So that's how you think about Kitsby's LinkedIn content. How do you think about your own LinkedIn content, not only for Kitsby, but also for your personal brand?

Allison Chen (17:39)
Yeah, so once again, I started posting on LinkedIn because I was trying to see if I could get more brand deals from it. So I was trying to think about topics that I could talk about from a content creation standpoint and documenting the things that I was doing on other platforms. I think I've recently slowed down a little bit just because I somehow think my audience got messed up along the way.

And now mostly it's just people in tech that like my content, but I guess that's the same on other platforms too. So like it's, it's fine. but I kind of took the philosophy of like shitposting for a little bit. I think I have the unique advantage of not wanting a job from LinkedIn. So I don't have to be professional in any capacity. So.

I can incorporate a sense of humor and just make them funny and entertaining in a way that other professionals and working professionals can't. So for a while I was just posting once a day and posting some educational tidbits, but also mostly just roasting and complaining about how bad people are at making content. And so that's really what I've, I think that's been most of my successful content pieces are just me complaining about other people.

are bad at whatever they're doing. If we're being totally honest.

Matt Huang (18:53)
I mean, it's pretty unique.

I definitely picked up on that as well. I think you had a post about like YouTube intros and how people spend way too much time introducing themselves.

Allison Chen (19:00)
Yeah!

No, it's not even YouTube intros. The thing is, you don't even see those bad intros unless you follow them, unless they're a close friend. But I know many people in real life that are trying to make content and they'll start off the video by saying, hi, my name's Amy, or like, hi, my name's Alison. And unfortunately, no one gives a shit. So I just really wanted to express that opinion. And I feel like...

Honestly, feel like Twitter's probably the better place to do that, but I guess LinkedIn's good enough for my purposes. And also, hopefully can bring me great connections with other people. So that's why I started.

Matt Huang (19:44)
That makes sense. Yeah, on the part about like the intros. That's that's so interesting. I'm definitely guilty of doing that in some of my YouTube videos. Maybe maybe it's maybe with short form, it's different because people have even shorter attention spans than say like long form 1520 minute videos. But I can definitely see what you mean with like, if you spend five seconds in the beginning,

saying your name, people you've already lost half the audience.

Allison Chen (20:13)
Yeah, or like honestly even on YouTube, you'll see that there's definitely more retention if you don't start your video like that. Like all the biggest YouTubers now, nowadays, when you click into the video, the video titles like a question and the video just immediately starts. There's no intro, there's no like, what's up guys? Like, how are you doing? Like you have the question in the title and then the video and content plays immediately as soon as you click on

So I think like anyone like trying to make good content or trying to tell a good story like won't start with their name. Even if you look at like a Ted talk, right? Like all these people start with some sort of introduction about the topic that eases you in that has nothing to do with their credentials. Cause like ultimately we don't really care about other people like that. Like we don't care about strangers on the internet like that. We just more or less care about what you have to say.

Matt Huang (21:06)
I really like that. feel like it touches on like the fact that most people, they just care about the value that they can get out of whatever piece of content it is, whether it's like entertainment or learning something. It also kind of reminds me of how the hook of a LinkedIn post, I feel like it's super important to get immediately to the point or at least trigger some kind of emotion.

that gets people to want to even read for longer than a few seconds. I'm curious if you in your hooks, like, what kind of thought do you put to it? Or? Yeah, what's your thought process around LinkedIn hooks?

Allison Chen (21:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, honestly, my thought process of LinkedIn writing is actually to think about it less, if that makes sense. I think the hook is super important. Like that is a part that I will spend a lot of time on, but I think one with the speed of like, and the amount of content that's just available on LinkedIn and all these other platforms, I don't think it's worth anyone's time to spend like an extra 30 minutes, like trying to retool all the words and trying to like make it.

perfectly formatted. And I also think because there's so much AI slop on LinkedIn, and there's so much like corporate BS on LinkedIn, it's actually to your benefit to not spend as much time trying to make it sound really professional, and to just like get your thoughts out and get them out like quickly and in my case, casually. But I think that's where

so that I don't actually spend that much time on my more successful posts. My most successful LinkedIn posts I wrote in like five minutes and posted them immediately.

Daniel Greenberg (22:41)
Do you spend more time on-

Matt Huang (22:41)
love that.

Allison Chen (22:41)
But like, actually, is that

is that bad

Like, because I know I do that, but I know that other people might not be able to replicate that.

Matt Huang (22:44)
You

Yeah.

Daniel Greenberg (22:50)
think

it's bad advice at all. think like

I don't think it's advisable for everyone who might be using chat GBT to write something in five minutes, but for you, Alison, I think that's more authentic and you're so gifted at content. You only need five minutes to make such a viral post.

Allison Chen (23:07)
Right, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, you, authenticity is actually missing from LinkedIn, like, is really missing from LinkedIn. And like people on LinkedIn crave authenticity because they're trapped at work, they're trapped at their corporate jobs, they don't like really feel like themselves, right? And so it's to everyone's benefit to just write their posts a little bit more casually and to not like,

Matt Huang (23:25)
100%.

Allison Chen (23:34)
retool and reconfigure it so much to sound like a corporate template. Now, obviously not everyone can get away with that in the same way I can, but a LinkedIn post regardless will stand out more if you're talking more casually, if you have a different tone of voice, if you're not writing chat GPT style slops.

Daniel Greenberg (23:56)
I feel so strongly about this because when I was ghost writing for someone this summer, I would send them a post and then they would edit it. And then it'd go through like five rounds of edits within the company. And then that's doing the same thing. ChatGPT does. It's finding the amalgamation of five different responses and then spitting it out to you. And it loses all the emotion and it loses all the authenticity. And I feel the same thing you did that the only way for it to reach an audience is through authenticity, whether it takes

five minutes or 30 minutes.

Allison Chen (24:24)
mean, there's also such a shame on LinkedIn though because there's a lot of things that are written by chat GPT that also do super well, which is very annoying in like a way that wouldn't do well on other platforms. But like as someone who's like biased to working on other platforms, like I think that authenticity is better.

Matt Huang (24:24)
Yeah.

No, I completely agree. And I think like one of them, one of the highest performing posts that I've put out has also been like something that I wrote up in probably 15 minutes. And it was just like me listing out a bunch of things that I failed at. And so it was just like, I think it stood out because one, very few people want to talk about things that they've failed at on LinkedIn, especially because it's such a professional quote unquote buttoned up platform.

But two, it's like, was authentic because I barely edited it and I didn't use, I did use a little bit of AI to like tighten up the language, but it was largely me who wrote it. And so it sounds a lot different than like your standard chat GPT super structured ⁓ dash filled post.

Daniel Greenberg (25:23)
Yeah.

Matt Huang (25:24)
So I agree with you there. I do think it's maybe tougher for people who like, as a content creator, I'm, I think we have a higher bar for, or a lower bar actually for what we're, we consider acceptable to put out there. But like, if I was a professional working at some, I don't know, big tech company or something, I'd probably be more hesitant about it. But for me, I just, I don't know for better, for worse, I just don't care as much. So I'm okay with putting some of that.

Content out.

Allison Chen (25:51)
Well, I think like if you are a big professional at a large company, like you already are using LinkedIn for different purposes and you already have someone who's helping you writing, helping you write things. And so like, obviously that's different. For other people though, that don't already have this like business brand associated with them though, like you do, you will need to fail a few times and you will need to be embarrassing for a bit before like you actually see success.

So like, I would just say deal with it. Like, I mean, I think I like last week, I think I met up with some people that I went to college with and I was like, yeah, I'm posting on LinkedIn now. And they were like, yeah, I've been seeing that. And I'm like, cool, didn't bring it up though. And it's not like, it's clear that they don't love it. And everyone, I don't think anyone at our age, like really.

Matt Huang (26:23)
You heard it here.

Deal with it.

Allison Chen (26:47)
wants to be doing it or like thinks it's like cool but like I mean if you want that to be a part of your brand and you want that those opportunities to come then like on any platform you do need to publicly fail a few times before you figure out how to like have the low bar of what's acceptable.

for your content.

Daniel Greenberg (27:05)
I think it's

a compliment your friends are bringing up your LinkedIn because it means they're obviously seeing it so the content's doing pretty well.

Allison Chen (27:11)
I don't know if they're my friends, but... Yeah,

but they're certainly seeing it.

Daniel Greenberg (27:16)
Okay, so we have authenticity. What else is working well for you on LinkedIn or UC working well?

Allison Chen (27:23)
Hmm. I mean, I still think I still love a good single photo.

If we're getting down to the nitty gritty, I think a single photo, a strong hook, a single photo, three emojis max, three hashtags max. LinkedIn is a simple place.

Daniel Greenberg (27:28)
I agree.

Allison Chen (27:37)
You can follow these rules and the post will do at least okay.

Daniel Greenberg (27:42)
What about bold text or italics?

Allison Chen (27:44)
I mean, I don't write with bold text or italics ever, so I've never used them in my LinkedIn posts. Honestly, I personally enjoy writing all my LinkedIn posts in lowercase. But like, I wouldn't say that's like a secret to success or anything. So yeah, I mean, I'm here for bolds and italics. I think if appropriately used.

Daniel Greenberg (28:06)
What about comments?

Allison Chen (28:07)
Comments? Leaving comments?

Daniel Greenberg (28:08)
Yeah, leaving comments.

Allison Chen (28:10)
I try not to leave many comments just because I have opinions that I don't think need to be shared in the LinkedIn comments. Like LinkedIn is not a place for debate, you know?

No!

Daniel Greenberg (28:21)
will

say commenting can drive a lot of profile growth, maybe for the wrong reasons if you're not commenting the best things. But in case you want to, you know, on authentic, on authentic size yourself, you can go back into the common zone and maybe see some growth there.

Allison Chen (28:37)
Yeah, I mean I definitely respond to a lot of comments on my own posts. just, I honestly at this point I don't think I should be commenting on other people's posts because like that means I would be spending more time on LinkedIn and I don't think we should be spending a lot of time on any social media platform.

Daniel Greenberg (28:56)
Are you a post and ghost kind of person? just post on LinkedIn, then you got to get out of there.

Allison Chen (29:00)
no, no, no, no, I check

it because I love the dopamine. But I think to limit, to limit my time on the platform, I'm a bit lazy and I don't like to.

Daniel Greenberg (29:03)
Don't we all?

Are you a desktop

or mobile?

Allison Chen (29:12)
desktop. Well, to be honest, to be honest, I do think LinkedIn's UI is terrible on both. But, but I, I do want desktop just because I prefer to write on desktop.

Matt Huang (29:13)
Really?

Daniel Greenberg (29:24)
Not to get too personal, but are we in lighter dark mode here?

Allison Chen (29:27)
on my desk, actually on my desktop, I'm on light mode.

Daniel Greenberg (29:29)
Yeah.

I would think it would be a better, it's definitely better in light mode than dark mode in my opinion on desktop. Now I'm not saying it's great.

Allison Chen (29:35)
I don't think, I think LinkedIn

on dark mode might be scary.

Daniel Greenberg (29:39)
I think it would be too.

Allison Chen (29:41)
Yeah, you know? Have you used it? I've never even considered using it on Dark Mode.

Matt Huang (29:45)
I've never

used dark mode. Daniel, have you?

Daniel Greenberg (29:46)
it. You know,

I'm imagining something like Twitter right now is what it would look like. And that's probably not the place you want to spend most of your time.

Allison Chen (29:53)
yeah, no I agree. Although like I said, a lot of my LinkedIn ideas probably would do better on Twitter. But I just don't think... Well, yeah, no, because I just don't think anything I... Like my audience is not on Twitter.

Daniel Greenberg (30:00)
But you don't post a lot on Twitter.

Allison Chen (30:08)
Like, also nothing I say is particularly controversial enough to go on Twitter. Let's be honest. I'm just telling you to please make a more interesting video. Like, that's not controversial enough for Twitter.

Daniel Greenberg (30:08)
You're not running for president?

pro kombushas can get pretty controversial.

Allison Chen (30:22)
Says who? A person who doesn't know how to make one?

Daniel Greenberg (30:25)
Yeah, I don't know what

was saying there. Matt, I'm gonna let you take over.

Matt Huang (30:27)
Alright,

so if you were the CEO of LinkedIn, like what if you can make like one change, what would you would you change?

Allison Chen (30:30)
Mm-hmm.

Wait, who is the CEO of

Daniel Greenberg (30:35)
Ryan Roslansky. Bam, automatic. I don't, I wish I did.

Allison Chen (30:36)
⁓ do you know him? Wow, wow. You

guys are in it. If I could make one change, hmm, I would make so many changes. It's really hard to just pick one.

Daniel Greenberg (30:48)
Pick a few.

Allison Chen (30:49)
Okay, I think at the top of my list, would pick creator monetization. Now, obviously I'm biased, but I think, right, but I do think that their creator monetization, spoken from other creators I've spoken to too, by the way, like other LinkedIn influencers, they all say their creator monetization is bad. And like,

Daniel Greenberg (31:00)
We are too.

Allison Chen (31:13)
I think there is such a missed opportunity for people to make interesting content on LinkedIn. And no one will make interesting content on LinkedIn if there is no money and there is no money invested in the

Because I also think like the quality of the LinkedIn creators is definitely just not, it's not nearly as high as other platforms because it's not nearly as competitive because there are less dollars here. Second, maybe this should be first, honestly, their analytics are terrible. They don't mean anything. Half of them don't mean anything. Like if you really look at them, like they're actually not useful. Like you're telling me,

Matt Huang (31:40)
I agree.

Allison Chen (31:51)
my view... like I think one of them is like view count over certain number of days but you can't see how many view views you got per day. Like it's all it's all bad. They're not good. And third, I think it's difficult to make content on LinkedIn. Like there is no text editor and like people probably would put bold and I would put bold and italic.

Matt Huang (32:08)
Say more.

Allison Chen (32:15)
font maybe in my posts, but you can't add it natively on LinkedIn. So you'd have to use Google or you'd have to use Docs or Word to manually edit those first and then import them into LinkedIn, which like defeats the purpose of having like a like a platform for you to actually like create on. And it never like your posts like drafts never save. You can't find your schedule posts very easily. Like there's so many things.

Yeah, those are like, those are a few off the top of my head. There's one more that I just thought of as I was ranting about this. But I will I will get back to you on that when I do when I when I figure that out.

Matt Huang (32:43)
This is really good.

Creator monetization needs to be a thing. Otherwise, there's not going to be good creators coming to this platform. And then to like the analytics, especially compared to YouTube, which is what I'm used to, too. I mean, it's it's like

It's like a world apart. One thing that I would love.

Allison Chen (33:08)
Now, granted

it did take YouTube 10 years to figure out their dashboard and their analytics, but it's not like LinkedIn hasn't been around for 10 years.

Matt Huang (33:16)
That's fair.

That's true. That's true. But I think something like a B testing of hooks would be really cool or and not even just like hooks. But like if you wanted to put a picture versus a video or two different pictures and just test that, that would be super insightful. And then of course, like understanding where the impressions are like what who's actually part of the hundred thousand impressions in one of your viral posts, right? Today, you have no idea.

Is it the audience that you want or not? So, yeah, completely agree there.

Allison Chen (33:48)
Yeah, also, ⁓ last thing, last thing. LinkedIn has horrible, horrible in app search. It's easier to find people on Google than it is on LinkedIn, which makes no sense because you're trying to find their LinkedIn, but you're gonna go to Google to find their LinkedIn.

which is just once again defeats the purpose of trying to keep users on your app. That was my last point. Sorry, just actually like, also like I know there are, dude, I know there are teams for this. Like there is a creator monetization team that I have reached out to. No one's gotten that.

Matt Huang (34:15)
I love how passionate you are about it.

Allison Chen (34:24)
Like there are people that are supposedly working on this stuff, don't know where. They're not sharing anything.

So it's really annoying. No, I know it's so annoying because I'm trying like I am trying to bring funny bring entertainment to LinkedIn but like I guess but like honestly I've also decided that like I don't think that's what LinkedIn wants.

Daniel Greenberg (34:31)
busy trying to make dark mode better.

Yeah, I hope that's not the case. I will say one tool that you may find helpful is a free tool called Typegrow. I wish I made this. And you can format your posts and see how they would look like before the dot dot dot more. And it's a better text editor than LinkedIn. So I can send it to you after too. I wish there was a referral code I could give you, but it's a free tool. So you'll have to check that out and.

Allison Chen (35:02)
Mmm.

Daniel Greenberg (35:14)
But those are some very good rants. Matt may ask you to sign a petition later for his A-B testing. He really wants this to happen and I don't blame him. I think it's an awesome feature YouTube has.

Allison Chen (35:23)
I think so too. I think, I do think though that some of my ideas might, should take priority.

Matt Huang (35:33)
Whoa.

Allison Chen (35:34)
I also think part of testing on other platforms because they're not a YouTube video, a YouTube video takes forever to make so I get the nature of A-B testing but these other platforms when you post on them they're also algorithmic that you know what's successful based on just what performs and the performance is kind of instant and if it doesn't perform no one saw it so it's great.

Daniel Greenberg (36:00)
What about sub-stock? What do they do well for you as one of the most successful creators on the platform that LinkedIn doesn't?

Allison Chen (36:07)
Well, I wouldn't say I'm like nearly the most successful substacker. Substack when they originally started, I think brought on journalists onto their platform. So they like, they got journalists to go independent from publications and to make their substack the only place that you could find the news that they wrote about. And so I would say...

that's where they succeed the most, not from someone like me who like makes recipes, because there are also like other models to monetize recipes and to monetize recipe websites. But they have like, they do have office hours. I have the emails and contacts of some people on their partnerships team. So like if I were to email them about questions, they would respond. And they do have office hours, like I said, for people that have like

over a hundred and over a thousand like paid subscribers. So they do have like customer experience and customers to support people.

Matt Huang (37:01)
really impressive. Super impressive that you've been able to get I think it was like what 10,000 subscribers on your sub stack and a lot of those being paid as well.

Daniel Greenberg (37:01)
Solid feature.

Matt Huang (37:11)
What do you think about like sub stack notes? Cause I have a sub stack as well. And it seems like they're trying to push that social aspect more now. I noticed you also use notes and you've posted a few recently, but how do feel about that versus just like using it as a standalone? Like I'm going to post my recipes here.

Allison Chen (37:29)
Yeah, when I met with the Substack team originally, a big thing they sold me on was there's a lot of organic growth potential on Substack as opposed to just having to convince your audience to sign up for Substack or to subscribe to your Substack. And that's because of the notes feature that you mentioned. So the notes feature, I think it kind of works like real, it kind of works like threads.

Like it's not as like controversial as like Twitter and stuff. But there are a lot of people that have seen a lot of success from just like one viral notes post that has like allowed them to convert and like gain a lot of subscribers and like a larger sub stack following. So I think it's good like that. And also I just feel like a lot of the notes that are coming up at least on my feed are, they don't have to be super engineered like a LinkedIn post or they don't have to be super like engineered or funny like a tweet for example to.

perform really well. It's just a lot of people with their genuine thoughts and then also like a lot of like fun cute photos. So yeah, I think like I don't use it a ton. I use it every now and then and then I honestly like have someone repost my videos onto Substack Notes. But I think it's like I'm not opposed to it.

Because at the end of the day like sub stack is kind of social for a lot of people that write more like commentary pieces and people that like have like I guess more like Discussions on their sub stack than I do So I think it's it's good to facilitate all that stuff

Do you not like nuts?

Daniel Greenberg (38:59)
You pu-

Matt Huang (39:01)
No, I think I agree with you. And I noticed I'm just scrolling through your notes feed right now. You do post a lot of your short form content on there. I think that my general impression of Substack is at least right now. And I've noticed there's bigger and bigger creators that have been joining recently, but it was kind of like a smaller, it started out a lot smaller, like you said.

with journalists, and then there was like more writers that started joining and creatives. And I guess I wonder how long they're going to be able to maintain the same kind of feeling that I think it has. It feels more approachable. And honestly, there was a time where I was using Substack a lot because I felt like it was less brain rotty compared to other social media platforms.

X was like, my gosh, if I spend a few hours on there, I just feel bad. And then LinkedIn is like, if I spend too much on there, I also feel kind of like, I didn't get that much out of it. And maybe YouTube is probably the only one where I'm like, can spend hours on and I'll feel like I still learned a lot or got a lot out of it. And then for written though, I felt like Substack was the most approachable and

Part of that is because the community is really small and people don't really care as much about like cracking the algorithm. But now there's more people coming on. So I don't know in like a year or two where it's going to be or if it's still going to be that same approachable platform.

Allison Chen (40:26)
mean, obviously there's a point with anyone's sort of like as the scale of increase, where things become less approachable, like obviously I feel like I'm more removed from my audience than I was when I had 10,000 like followers for instance. And I think that's just like, that is a thing that naturally happens. But also I think

The whole point of Substack is to make writing really approachable and to give anyone the power to like monetize their writing really for them, right? And to monetize and write on their platform. So I feel like if you find those smaller creators on Substack, it's still gonna feel the same. It's still gonna feel very small and tight knit. You just might have maybe trouble finding them, but I don't think you ever, like you always would have, if that makes sense. You always would have had trouble if they were really small.

Matt Huang (41:16)
Yeah.

No, I agree. And then the last thing I wanted to say on Substack was what makes it special right now is there's no ads. Whereas like, feel like people were kind of, or kind of are still worried that right now I think they monetize mainly through like the subscriptions taking a cut of that. But if they were to flood the ad with feeds that would, sorry, flood the feed with ads that would sort of ruin the experience.

⁓ but yeah, sub stacks and interesting one.

Allison Chen (41:42)
Yeah, I think Substack itself isn't gonna flood your feed with ads, hopefully. I think that's why they have the monetization model is because if you're paying a monthly subscription, there should be no ads. And so I think that's how they're doing it. However, there is an uptick of people getting sponsored posts on Substack. So you are starting to see advertisement in other ways. I have not yet.

But I hope one day.

Daniel Greenberg (42:06)
Matt just wants free sub stack advice, Allison. We got to get, we got to get back to the topic. Hey, we got to get back to LinkedIn. Okay. So you post your short form videos on sub stack. Have you thought about posting them on LinkedIn? Cause these are getting millions of views on other platforms or what's your thought process like towards putting those videos on LinkedIn?

Allison Chen (42:12)
Sir.

I'm hesitant to post on my short form videos on LinkedIn just because I think right now short form videos aren't really performing well on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is really into single photos or horizontal video seems to be doing okay at the moment. And I find this issue on Facebook as well. I just don't think the audience is very receptive to my content in the same way it is on these other platforms.

And so I think older audiences don't really care about my quick cutting croquembouche baking videos like that, unless there's some sort of business objective that I can like post about and talk about in the caption, which I have thought about. And at the moment, I can't think of many. Like you could probably post one or two videos, but also they wouldn't perform well. like if I just literally took the 30 seconds to take a photo, the

host would do better. So I would just do that as opposed to reposting my old videos. Unless it's a brand deal, I will be posting my brand deals and stuff hopefully on there. And hopefully someone will see it.

Daniel Greenberg (43:26)
I also feel

so strongly about this that you're making the right call there as well because the CMO and the CEO that's reading your LinkedIn content and wants to do a brand deal with you doesn't understand why you're like watching the Croak and Boosh video, why someone else would watch this, but they understand the business of Alison Chen and they understand the numbers of what you're doing and the impact you're having through your content.

Allison Chen (43:50)
Or trying to, anyway. I don't actually think. I also realize that a lot of people on my LinkedIn don't watch my other videos. They just like only know me on LinkedIn and separate and siloed, which is fine, because like different platforms have different audiences. But a lot of the stuff I say doesn't make sense unless you realize that I have been creating content for a long time.

Daniel Greenberg (44:09)
Has LinkedIn landed you any brand deals for Instagram or YouTube or your other short form platforms?

Allison Chen (44:15)
No. The short and long answer is no. LinkedIn has done nothing for my other platforms.

Daniel Greenberg (44:17)
Not yet, not yet, not yet is the answer.

Matt Huang (44:18)
Not yet.

Daniel Greenberg (44:22)
No.

That was not good for the thesis behind the podcast, but not yet. We're going to say it's not yet.

Allison Chen (44:30)
I'm

gonna say not yet because the reason I started posting was because when I was at Cannes, which is like a giant advertising festival, I met a bunch of creators who were exclusively LinkedIn creators and like had seen and were still in the same Uber XL as me. And they got there with a fraction of the followers just because they posted on LinkedIn.

Daniel Greenberg (44:38)
Heard of it?

interest.

Allison Chen (44:52)
And I was like, okay, well, if we're in the same car, then clearly you're doing something right. So like, how can I learn from you? And how can I like also capture like what's happening on LinkedIn in that way? But I do unfortunately think because content creation is on other platforms, I don't think it's been as successful for me as someone who like previously worked in sales or like had a traditional marketing job and is talking about in this like corporate way.

⁓ so no, nothing has gone on so far, but hopefully we can change that. I have met cool people though, I guess, if that counts for anything.

Daniel Greenberg (45:24)
You've got to start, start cold.

Tell us more about what it was like meeting these LinkedIn creators. It can, I'm curious what you've learned and how that's changing your view on LinkedIn content, if at all.

Allison Chen (45:36)
Yeah, once again, like I was in an Uber with them. So like I talked to them for 20 minutes. I talked to them for 20 minutes. No, life changing 20 minutes. But I sat down. We were like, oh, what's your name? Oh, you make content on LinkedIn? Really? Like you exist and you're in this car with me in the south of France. No, because I would I think in college, I made a post on LinkedIn.

Daniel Greenberg (45:40)
That That counts!

Matt Huang (45:55)
Oof.

Allison Chen (46:03)
And it was like a sarcastic post of like, I just hit 500 plus connections. I'm so excited about it. And then I put my like YouTube play button in the photo because I thought it was funny. No, exactly. Or like, and then I think I drew the LinkedIn logo on the YouTube play button. So it was like my award for hitting 500 plus connections. Because like, so like I used to joke that I liked

Daniel Greenberg (46:15)
disrespect

That's funny.

That's a good post.

Allison Chen (46:29)
I wanted to be a LinkedIn influencer just because I thought it was funny. But then I actually met a bunch of them and I was like, ⁓ wait, you actually do exist. And like, this is actually a viable thing you can do for your career. And so I think the main takeaway that I learned from them is that no one posts on LinkedIn, you should do it. And

the bar is lower to post on LinkedIn. The quality and the entertainment value is way lower than other platforms.

And it's not like those people aren't receptive. It's not like the people aren't that are on LinkedIn are not the same. They are the same people that use other social media platforms. They just happen to be at work. And so like you can, there is enter, you can bring entertainment and educational business value from your content on other platforms and just pop it on LinkedIn and it'll perform wonderfully. And so yeah.

That was their advice. Their advice was honestly to be like, here's three easy meals you can make at home while working from home. But like, I wasn't gonna do that. But the point is they told me I should post.

Daniel Greenberg (47:27)
I mean, there's.

I agree with them and there's one even content creator right now who's posting like fitness hacks on LinkedIn Dan go I don't know if you see him and he has like 400,000 followers and it's getting thousands of likes per post and like something you wouldn't expect to go viral on LinkedIn, but does

Allison Chen (47:43)
It's because the people at work are only allowed to scroll on LinkedIn, right? Because that counts as work appropriate, but it's not like they wouldn't watch a baking or an exercise video on LinkedIn. They probably would rather watch that. So all this stuff is still viable on the platform.

Daniel Greenberg (48:03)
Matt, what do you have to say about this?

Matt Huang (48:04)
No, I was just thinking about what Alison, you were saying. I do think LinkedIn is the most socially acceptable office social media to be caught scrolling on. you know, like if someone's walking by your cubicle and like, I used to work in investment banking and we'd have these open cubicles and it'd be like 10pm at night, you'd be kind of just like scrolling on.

Daniel Greenberg (48:14)
to be scrolling.

Matt Huang (48:27)
your phone or something and then maybe your staffer would walk by and you'd quickly try to hide it. But if I was on LinkedIn, it was like, it's fine. It's better than like being on TikTok for sure. ⁓ cause at least I'm maybe building my network. So I do agree. Like there's probably more people that are using it. And that doesn't mean though that they're not going to be interested in baking or a fitness video.

Allison Chen (48:37)
Totally.

Matt Huang (48:51)
And I feel like the main takeaway from the conversation with the influencers is just like, there's a big opportunity. The bar is so low right now. There's not that many people creating. It's still kind of like, it's still cringe to post on LinkedIn. So like the people that are, you are ahead of the ball because your competition is less than on other platforms.

Allison Chen (49:08)
Yes, Matt, you are ahead of the ball.

You are ahead of the ball. You're the belle of the ball. Yeah, the only issue with LinkedIn is like, LinkedIn kind of feels like TikTok in 2020. Like if you post, you will like gain a lot of success and traction. The only thing is, is like, it's unclear if LinkedIn itself is gonna take the steps to like catch up with other platforms.

and like actually have your success be like very meaningful or like your follower count be very meaningful.

Daniel Greenberg (49:41)
Alison, I've been I've been screaming this from the rooftops that LinkedIn's the next tick tock. I was on tick tock two in 2020.

Allison Chen (49:46)
Yeah, like,

but like part of it, part of it is like, it might not be because LinkedIn has been around for decades and it's still so behind. So like, it might, it might not like catch up ever to the success of these other platforms because like, frankly, their, product teams slow.

Daniel Greenberg (50:06)
But who's LinkedIn's competition, even if their product teams slow like Instagram as TikTok, YouTube even as Netflix in a way like Twitter and threads, but like, who's the LinkedIn competition?

Allison Chen (50:16)
I mean, like YouTube at first, like TikTok at first was YouTube's competition. Now YouTube is competing in like with TV. But like, I think there can be other social platforms that can compete with LinkedIn or really, really LinkedIn is just like competing with itself in a way of like, ⁓ it's not producing any valuable product. Like it's not making itself more popular. Like it has the moat of like,

being a professional network. And like it has the advantage of having all these professionals on it that no other platform has in the way does. But like it hasn't, like you cannot edit text on LinkedIn. You can't search for people on LinkedIn. These are basic functions that every other social platform has.

So like it doesn't have the UI capabilities, it doesn't have the power. like even Substack for instance, Substack rose from the ashes in like three, four years, right? So like there's something if someone is hungry enough, they can totally overtake LinkedIn in like five years. Cause like LinkedIn's just slow.

Matt Huang (50:59)
I feel like...

Yeah, I feel like the lack of competition may be also why they're not that fast to improve. And Daniel, I remember from our conversation with

Allison Chen (51:25)
No, they're not that

Matt Huang (51:26)
I think that LinkedIn maybe hasn't moved as fast because of the moat that they have. But Daniel and I were talking with Marshall Sandman who he runs Animal Capital, which is a venture capital fund started with Josh Richards, Noah back and a few other like tick tockers. And I believe they invested in a company called was it work week, Daniel that was supposed to be like a social media for professionals.

Daniel Greenberg (51:48)
Yeah.

Matt Huang (51:50)
or is trying to be a LinkedIn competitor.

I forget the name, I'd have to look it up after this.

Daniel Greenberg (51:55)
No, I

think, I don't think it was as linked, maybe it was a LinkedIn competitor. I thought it was more positioned towards like warehousing jobs and more like a travel competitor. We're going to have to look into it and.

Matt Huang (52:04)
Yeah, we'll have to-

Daniel Greenberg (52:05)
This

is, this is awkward.

Allison Chen (52:07)
Social

platforms are obviously hard and I am not an engineer by any means. So like, I do not know what it would take design wise to like make a LinkedIn competitor. But some nerdy genius would be able to do it.

Like it is totally possible to usurp LinkedIn in terms of professional networks, especially because all these other companies like have data on like your professional history or like things like that. Or if you have to do like job postings and things like that on like a brain trust, for example.

Daniel Greenberg (52:39)
I will. Alison, if, ⁓ kids be and you no longer work out, think me, you and Matt have, have a new thing we can get going instead.

Allison Chen (52:47)
I would really, no thank you, I cannot code to save my life.

Matt Huang (52:51)
Haha.

Daniel Greenberg (52:52)
Not yet, but you can roast it and that's like an extremely important part of the process.

Allison Chen (52:57)
True, true. I don't think we can Vive code the next major social platform, but I can certainly complain about it.

Daniel Greenberg (53:05)
Okay, that, so maybe vibe coding LinkedIn is a bad idea. We're gonna transition to the other seven I had prepared for you, Allison. And you're gonna tell me if this is a good idea, bad idea, and your thoughts behind it, okay? You ready?

Allison Chen (53:18)
Uh-huh.

Daniel Greenberg (53:19)
The first one is to add playlist to the baking kits at Kitsby.

Allison Chen (53:23)
Playlists? Like Spotify playlists?

Daniel Greenberg (53:24)
Yeah. So you can,

yeah. So you can cook, you know, the, I don't see any more to try pronouncing these things because I'm going to mess it up, but then, you know, along with the recipe and instructions, you can have a playlist that you curated to listen to it.

Allison Chen (53:37)
think if we're gonna spend money on a QR code, I think it should be a link to a playlist of tutorial videos on how to make the baked goods. So maybe, maybe a good idea.

Daniel Greenberg (53:49)
Okay, so we're gonna call out.

I appreciate your honesty, but we're gonna move that one to the bad idea.

Allison Chen (53:54)
with royalty-free music in the background.

Daniel Greenberg (53:58)
That's important. ⁓ the next one, which I'm super passionate about is a live Peloton like cooking class where you can have like, you know, leaderboards of how good everyone's like circles are for the cake and everything. And it's fun. And you're playing music. What do think about that?

Allison Chen (54:14)
Wait, I would love that, because as you can tell, I love judging people.

Daniel Greenberg (54:16)
Let's go.

Matt Huang (54:18)
Nice.

Daniel Greenberg (54:18)
It's almost like a

live food network.

Allison Chen (54:20)
Yeah, wait, that would be great. I don't know like logistically how that would work, but if it could, I would do it. But I don't have to do any work, you know? I would do it.

Daniel Greenberg (54:29)
I wish we had a connect connection accepted in-house development team, but if we do we'll get back to you. Okay, so The next one is smart baking utensils that judge your form while you're using them So like, you know, I was watching you whisk in granted I am like a baking like novice like I don't know what I'm doing But like, you know, even the way I hold it like it could grade the way how I hold it and everything You know, I'm sure this even like looks

You're laughing at me the way I'm even doing this. But what do think about that? Smart baking utensils that judge your form.

Allison Chen (54:59)
I mean, why would we develop this when I already exist?

And I really don't think this needs to be like a reproducible product.

Daniel Greenberg (55:06)
Just the solution to this is just to watch more of your videos.

Allison Chen (55:09)
Exactly.

Daniel Greenberg (55:10)
Okay, so this one is more of a request and I think it has been mentioned before and it's baking for the office. Best lunches or foods could be a LinkedIn series. I'm really looking for more ideas of what to bring for lunch today or to work. So if you ever make that content, I'm here for it just so you know.

Allison Chen (55:31)
No, I actually, think that is a good idea. And I think I need to return to baking for people's offices again.

Daniel Greenberg (55:38)
love it. Now, my

Allison Chen (55:39)
But you're in Boston, so

that doesn't even matter. I'm not going all the way to Boston.

Daniel Greenberg (55:44)
You know, that's a fair point. when I'm in, but I will be in New York for some point. I can go into New York this Saturday. So if there's stuff to say, that's true. That's true. This is pretty awkward then we're just gonna have to move on to the next one. But when.

Allison Chen (55:51)
But you're not in office on Saturday.

But good idea, not for you. The

baked goods aren't for you.

Daniel Greenberg (56:01)
maybe Matt's office, or if you ever open up a Boston franchise, then I'll be the first customer.

Matt Huang (56:02)
Maybe for me.

Allison Chen (56:07)
I'll pass on that idea, but thank you.

Daniel Greenberg (56:10)
⁓ actually, Allison, I forgot to tell you about this. I've been cooking, baking actually protein bagels with my brother. And our shaping technique is awful, but we've got the ingredients down to a science. If you ever need some protein, like flour and a good recipe to make protein bagels.

Allison Chen (56:27)
So, what, do you use like cottage cheese? where is this protein coming from?

Daniel Greenberg (56:31)
No, no, no, no, no.

I've got this awesome supplier in Louisville, Kentucky. Could there are like four types of vegan protein flour, different kinds I use. I'm going to tell you off camera because I can't tell the secret to the audience, but you mix these four on a certain ratio and they taste just like bagels, one 95 calories, 22 grams of protein. They're just, they're exquisite.

Allison Chen (56:53)
I believe it. I don't believe in protein like that. Like you fine gentlemen probably do, but like I'm not a gym bro like that, but like I'm proud of you.

Matt Huang (57:02)
haha

Daniel Greenberg (57:07)
Thank you. And the next time I'm in New York and make bagels beforehand, I'm going to drop some off so you can see that while I may not know how to whisk that well, I can bake decently just to put that out there.

Allison Chen (57:20)
Can you make a non, can you just make a regular bagel version?

Matt Huang (57:23)
Hahaha

Daniel Greenberg (57:23)
Okay, now I'm just gonna need to move on to the next idea then. The next idea is a dessert rave. We've got coffee raves, like, you know, in coffee shops, whatever. Why not? Why not dessert? You know, have some baked goods and party a little bit.

Allison Chen (57:36)
So yeah, mean, we've also done some sales at raves in terms of, because like at Kitsby, they also sell bubble tea and do like bubble tea catering at events and stuff. And we've just found that the people that are raving are not really interested in say, eating too while they're dancing.

for various reasons, because they're really distracted by the music and the lights. yeah. I would like that personally as a party, but I recognize that a lot of people don't enjoy eating while they party.

Daniel Greenberg (58:18)
that makes sense, obviously, because they'd get their hands messy and like it would, yeah.

Allison Chen (58:21)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. It's just a whole nightmare. They aren't interested for whatever reason.

Daniel Greenberg (58:26)
The last one I was actually Googling before and unfortunately it has been done before, but a cooking themed Airbnb, you know, all over my TikToks been Virginia's number one luxury rental. What if we have New York's number one cooking rental and you've got, you know, everything prepared. I guess it's similar to a cooking class, but yeah, thoughts there.

Allison Chen (58:48)
Well, I think you just answered the question. I think we already do that.

Daniel Greenberg (58:51)
Yeah, honestly, I cooking classes are better. So you don't have to deal with any of the cleaning or anything. So we're going to dump that one into the bad idea and go ahead and end this segment. But I will say, think, you know, we came up with some good ideas. have, you know, the Peloton light cooking class and baking for the office. Those we may see in the coming times. That's right.

Allison Chen (58:55)
Yeah.

Matt Huang (58:56)
Ha

Allison Chen (59:08)
in the near or far future.

Cool. Is this the end?

Matt Huang (59:11)
Stay tuned. So

I guess last question, is there anything we haven't talked about that you want the audience to know about you or about Kitspe?

Allison Chen (59:22)
⁓ LinkedIn people, if you're out there, please DM me or respond to our emails.

Those are my final words. I mean, if you want to know more about me, obviously I have a very large digital footprint on many social media platforms, so I don't need to promote those more.

Matt Huang (59:29)
There we go.

Daniel Greenberg (59:31)
Thank you for coming on the show.

Allison, thanks again for coming on the show.

Allison Chen (59:44)
Thank you for having

Daniel Greenberg (59:45)
This is probably the most we've laughed on a show in a while.

Allison Chen (59:47)
Good, good. That's really good.

Matt Huang (59:49)
Definitely.